Another form of "hidden outs"

[Nate tha' Great]

When the decision is close between betting when last to act on the turn and checking behind, as I think it is here, one thing that can tip the balance in favor of taking a free card is the possibility of picking up other outs that do not actually help your hand, but which you might plausibly be able to represent on the river.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 4.50 BB, won by Hero.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to Hero.</font>

[BottlesOf]

Nice. Something to think about.

[Tosh]

Its something to think about but really that J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif probably didn't cause your opponents to fold a hand they would call with if the river was J /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

[sthief09]

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Its something to think about but really that J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif probably didn't cause your opponents to fold a hand they would call with if the river was J /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree with this. it's not a great example but it's definitely a concept worth thinking about.

[StellarWind]

With 14 potential outs including weak overcards I would bet the turn. It doesn't feel like a close decision to me. What do you see in this situation?

[ QUOTE ]
one thing that can tip the balance in favor of taking a free card is the possibility of picking up other outs that do not actually help your hand, but which you might plausibly be able to represent on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
The idea is that they will put you on a flush draw because you took the free card?

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
With 14 potential outs including weak overcards I would bet the turn. It doesn't feel like a close decision to me. What do you see in this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I should have bet the turn. It's quite possible that they both have overcards and would fold to a turn bet.

But I tend to play very aggressively on and around the blinds so I need to pick some spots to let up. Nobody is folding a pair on this unscary turn card. My hand has no showdown value if it doesn't improve. And players in this game really like turn check-raises especially when the board does not contain high cards.

[ QUOTE ]
The idea is that they will put you on a flush draw because you took the free card?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not a flush draw exactly but some sort of draw. I'm going to attempt to represent a flush card, an Ace, a King, a Queen, and possibly a Jack on the river, in addition to the myriad of cards that actually improve my hand. I think you'll find that opponents will sometimes check-fold the river if you play it this way when they might have check-called if you had bet the turn because it looks like you're just pounding indiscriminately when you do that on a board like this.