Two interesting hands: T9o and JQs

[milesdyson]

Ignore my preflop call. It was an accident. How bad is this call though?

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif. UTG posts a blind of $0.35.
UTG (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.70 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, MP1 folds, CO calls.

River: (14.70 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.70 BB

Main question here: Do I raise this turn for value because two are trapped?

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.35.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 (poster) checks, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (14.40 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (12.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

River: (19.20 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

And one final hand from my table. These guys are awesome.

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero folds, BB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG caps</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

River: (21.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 24.50 BB
Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG has 9d 4d (two pair, nines and fours).
MP2 has 9c Kc (two pair, kings and nines).
CO has Td Tc (one pair, tens).
Outcome: MP2 wins 24.50 BB. </font>

[zolltron]

Hand 2:

You're just worse than a 2-1 dog on the turn. So, with only 2 callers your raise is not correct, unless you think that you can gain something else from a raise. As a result, you need to be pretty sure that you will get all three players to call the raise. I would be worried about getting that for two reasons. First, your raise by itself might lose a player. I don't know anything about that game, but at my live 3-6 I see that happen a reasonable amount of time (not often). Second, since the SB led the turn she may have picked up a hand that she will 3-bet which will very likely chase off at least one player (meaning you won't get the necessary callers for the raise).

I haven't done the math, but my guess is that both of these are likely enough to make a raise a negative play in the long run.

-z

[milesdyson]

Good points.

[Cerril]

1 - I'd probably release on the flop. It's a bit weak/tight but I never feel comfortable with the strength of a ten kicker with three players in.

2 - I'm fine with the turn raise at this limit. Four other players, and three will probably see the river most of the time. That two folded is unlucky but not too terrible, especially since one left half a bet lying there.

3 - I know that wasn't the intent of your posting this hand, but completing with Ax unsuited (as well as Kxo and offsuit connectors below JT) is something I've been trying to avoid on the advice of SSH.

[milesdyson]

I know a few people here - who are probably better than me - who play AXo, all the way down to A2o in such a big multiway pot.

Don't get me wrong though, this is as low as I'll go and with just enough limpers. On a side note, I need to buy SSH.

[Sent]

Hand 2 turn raise was fine with 15 clean outs, any 9, A, or diamond. YOu needed 1:2 to make a call and you were getting like 1:15, raise it up.

-Sent

[milesdyson]

I'm not getting paid 15:1 on the raise... but as someone said earlier, usually 3 people would call it.