Pre flop

[BottlesOf]

How do you feel about unsuited connectors in a very multiway raised pot from the BB?

How about suited semi-junk? KTs? Q8s? 86s? QXs? JXs?

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you feel about unsuited connectors in a very multiway raised pot from the BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like calling down to 67o with 5+ limpers.


[ QUOTE ]
How about suited semi-junk? KTs? Q8s? 86s? QXs? JXs?

[/ QUOTE ]

KTs and 86s are easy calls IMO. I'd probably call with the others depending on the number of limpers.

[BottlesOf]

Ok, so what's Ed's deal? In SSH, we're told to muck many of these hands in the 5-7 to the flop pf section.

Are we wrong? Or are we just able to do what the avg. SSH reader can't, or something else?

[Trix]

If the raise comes from EP and there are atleast 5 in before me, including the raiser, then I´ll call.

KTs, 86s etc I will call getting 5:1, closing the action and actiong last on flop if I check(since pfr most likely bets).

need 9:1 for random suited junk, but only if pfr is to my left.

[thirddan]

from the BB for a raise i fold unsuited connectors as per usual...i tend to like calling the raise with suited connector type hands (to avoid domination) and try to avoid the QJs/KTs type hands unless the pot is very multiway...I still fold the crap suited hands like J3s/Q6s...

[sthief09]

I call all kinds of crap, especially if it's an EP raiser or a button raiser, so I can either pump the pot or check-raise to clear everyone out. 76s is my favorite hand to call in the BB. it's easy to get away from when I miss, and pretty easy to play when I hit. the problem with KTs is you can flop a K and be completely unsure of where you are, out of position. in a big pot it's worth playing but I do muck hands like that a lot, probably more than I should.

[busguy]

Are you the most LAG guy to EVER play poker or at least on-line ??

I wonder if I should post a poll with that question ?


/images/graemlins/grin.gif busguy

[Evan]

Yup, sthief09=biggest LAG on party.

[sthief09]

explain yourself

[busguy]

[ QUOTE ]
I call all kinds of crap, especially if it's an EP raiser or a button raiser . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, maybe a poor attempt at humor . . . . but I just love your posts. To the best of my recollection a lot of them kind of go like this:

Post 1) Jam Jam Jam Jam - S H I T !!

Post 2) Jam Jam Jam Jam - NICE !!

Post 3) Jam Jam Jam Jam - S H I T !!

Post 4) Jam Jam Jam Jam - NICE !!

I'm going to be on the floor when I see a post from you along the lines of , "nah . . I would just fold that pre-flop"

Again I'm not tryin to "Hack" you. I just love it when guys come to play.


/images/graemlins/wink.gif busguy

[sthief09]

what are you talking about? do you even read what I write?

[Evan]

You're read on Josh as aggressive is right on, but he's really not loose by any stretch of the word. Although it seems like a lot of people feel otherwise.

[sthief09]

I'm not even aggressive anymore

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
Code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Statistic New Old % Chance
Hands 6,421 16,224 (bet you thought this would be higher)
VP$IP 17.38 19.78 -12.13%
PFR 11.87 13.15 -9.73%
W$WSF 35.63 40.25 -11.48%
Won $ At SD 50.00 47.86 4.47%
Att. To Steal 29.79 36.24 -17.80%
Agression (w/o PF) 2.27 2.79 -18.64%
SD 16.3 18.02 -9.54%



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[/ QUOTE ]

11.87 PFR, no that's not aggressive at all (lots of sarcasm).

[MrHorace]

[ QUOTE ]
try to avoid the QJs/KTs type hands unless the pot is very multiway

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you explain why these hands should be avoided?

[thirddan]

domination reasons, especially from a raiser with decent standards, but if the pot is multiway they are calls...

[MrHorace]

thanks, thought domination had something to do w/it, and understand if 3-4+ in pot to call. I guess my thought is if 2 of your suit, or god help us, 3 of your suit, fall on the flop, KTs is a pretty good damn hand! So I'd hate to have folded it. I think I understand the QJs moreso, as you'd most likely split if you drew the straight, and if the flush fell, you'd have to worry about A, K.

Am I giving too much credit to 2 or 3 of your suits falling on the flop?? That may be where my question lies, eh?

[busguy]

[ QUOTE ]



VP$IP 17.38 19.78 -12.13%



[/ QUOTE ]

wouldn't this be considered a tad on the loose side ??

remember . . . just trying to learn here !!

/images/graemlins/grin.gif busguy

[sthief09]

if you think a 17% VP$IP is too loose, then you're way too tight

[thirddan]

flopping a flush rarely happens and flopping a four flush is something like 10-1, that is why the pot needs to be multiway. The trouble with these hands is when you hit TP and don't know if you are ahead or not...

[busguy]

I haven't used Poker Tracker yet (one of the many things I need to do) but on Party my "see the flop" stats are in the 18-22 % range.

To tight ?? What are yours including the blinds ??

Thanks

busguy

[BottlesOf]

yeah, i think a vpip of 17 could be just about perfect. depends on the player, obviously.

[BottlesOf]

you are confusing vpip with "see the flop." these are different stats.

vpip is voluntarily putting money in to the pot preflop. if you check your big blind, this counts as "seeing the flop," but not as voluntarily putting money in the pot.

[busguy]

Yeh I knew what it stood for, that is why I asked about the blinds.

How does the small blind work ??

[BottlesOf]

If you are completing from the small blind, you are voluntarily putting money in the pot.

[Evan]

17% is not loose at all. Mine is 14.6 and I think I'm probably the tightest player I know (by far). Actually, isn't your really low Chris?

[BottlesOf]

Meh. probably. i'm trying to work on it. i haven't poked around pt in quite a while. i'm on a -100BB+ run now, so I don't plan on plunging in anytime soon.

[busguy]

Thanks for that guys.

That is all from the cheap seats for now

Out

Busguy

[sthief09]

no, you are voluntarily putting money in from the SB (another stat)

[sthief09]

who isn't on a 100BB+ slide these days?

[Evan]

i'm proud to announce i just came out of one.

[busguy]

See that's what I thought. I wasn't entirely sure though.

So what would your total pre-flop stat be (including the blinds)

Evan - I'd be interested to know yours as well

cheers for that

/images/graemlins/smile.gif busguy

[Evan]

My "Saw Flop All Hands" is 19.53%. I'm pretty sure VPIP included SB, because my flops seen outside of blinds is different thatn my VPIP, i think they just track it seperately even though its included.

[BottlesOf]

right, it's another stat. BUT, are you saying that that isn't counted in VPIP as well? This doesn't make sense.

VPSB should be a subset of VPIP.


Perhaps we need a Vehn diagram.

[Evan]

Evan's VPIP=14.61%
Evan's VPIPinSB=17.14% (don't yell at me, I play 3/6)
Evan's Flops Seen=19.53%
Evan's Saw Flop not Blind=13.64%

Now go ahead and put that Brown education to work.

[BottlesOf]

Too many variables...brain hurts.

[sthief09]

oh well, just pass/fail it

[BottlesOf]

S/NC

(Satisfactory/No credit)

[Evan]

Think of it in terms of your career...

Let's say you're babysitting 2 kids, VPIP and VPIPinSB (it must be some eastern european/arab family). All of the sudden VPIP is missing!!! Now, based on the infromation provided, would you look:
a) inside of VPIP
b) nowhere near VPIP, in fact VPIPinSB may have fled the country all together
c) for Evan to hit him for making you read this ridiculous post that could've been summed up in 2 words: "Chris babysits"

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
who isn't on a 100BB+ slide these days?

[/ QUOTE ]

Meeeeeeeeee, not that I'm on the up either.

[Evan]

I declare that Tosh's next 15 posts must have more content than this one.

[BottlesOf]

I honestly don't know if we can prove the role of VPSB based on those 4 percentages alone.

If you think we can, please do.

[Tosh]

Meh.

[edtost]

hitting Evan seems to be the most appropriate response. Although slight in stature, he does claim to be male, so there shouldn't be any moral implications.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm on a -100BB+ run now...

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not alone.

[edtost]

VPIP = VPIPinSB + VPIPinBB + saw flop not blind

we're missing one of those here, and

Flops Seen = VPIP + (Free ride in BB) + (Free Ride when posting outside of the blinds)

(I don't know pokertracker's term for those last ones)

and never ask a liberal arts student to do math (i don't care what his major is/was, brown=liberal arts)

[Evan]

I think I can, I'll use absolute #'s instead of percentages
I've been dealt 14,710 hands
I've played 2,873 (Flops Seen)
I've played 2,149 voluntarily (VPIP)
I've played 1,543 hands outside of blinds (Saw Flop not a Blind)
I've played 280 from the SB (VPIPinSB)
1,543+280=1,823

Flops not blind + Flops SB < Total flops seen

So doesn't this meant that not only is SB completion included, but so is callign a raise from BB and maybe even raising form BB (but I can't figure that out).

make any sense?

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
if you think a 17% VP$IP is too loose, then you're way too tight

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah and I don't think 17% is loose but I do play tighter than that.

[BottlesOf]

That's a load of crap. Brown's CS dept. is pretty damn good. The engineering kids can also do some crazy [censored] with numbers.

Just cause I can't doesn't mean a significant percentage of university student's can't.

[Evan]

I thought I was the only one left.

[BottlesOf]

I think by using total numbers instead of percentages, you totally change things.

Use JUST those 4 percentages, and prove it.

I want to see the light.

[edtost]

calm down, sarcasm.

i guess with no read, my comment was -ev.

[Tosh]

Nope and I expect I am tighter than you too. I think most of the difference comes from what I play from the big blind against a raise and what I complete the SB with. I generally don't take the small +EV plays there, to allow less stressful 8 tabling + TV watching etc.

[Evan]

Don't you think it makes more sense with the numbers since you can add tehm up much easier than fractions with different denomenators? Also, I think there's parts of VPIP that weren't in those 4 numbers like money you put in from the BB.

[edtost]

calling a raise/raising from the bb is not in those numbers, but IS in vpip.

[Evan]

Let the collegiate wars begin!

[Evan]

thats what i was sayin

[BottlesOf]

And that is what i was saying.

Of course you can figure it out with the asbolutel numbers. But you seemed to imply that if I worked at it, I could answer my own question with JUST the percentages, but I felt there was a problem with that.

So am I right? Or am I just unable to figure this out?

[Tosh]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but you don't necessarily need to see the flop to register in VPIP.

[Evan]

I think you're right since that was how I answered it. We're either both right or both wronf...but at least we're together.

[Evan]

yea, but often do you put money in pf and fold? cant be too many times.

[BottlesOf]

Nope, I think I'm right and you're wrong.


BTW, what's the answer? Does my VPIP include sb completions? What about BB raises?

[sthief09]

I heard NYU's football team is going to be solid this year

[Tosh]

Not often, I was just hoping to confuse Bottles further.

[BottlesOf]

oh [censored]. he's right.

that fucks my world up.

[BottlesOf]

Brown (1-0)
Columbia (0-1)

That is all...

[Evan]

Laugh all you want...but with our gay population our fashion team could run circles around yours.

[edtost]

yes and yes.

[Evan]

In that case, good post.

[BottlesOf]

So, I'm right and sthief was wrong on the original question.

Who's the big winner?!?!

http://www.charleysbar.com/JE%20Big%20Winner.JPG

THIS GUY!!!!!!!!

[Evan]

That looks like Dave if he gained like 100 lbs.

[sthief09]

yeah I was at the CU-Fordham game yesterday. I'm glad I don't remember any of it...

[brick]

I fold all the off-suit hands except sometimes I call with JTo and 9To.

I add a few more suited hands but not too many.
Like J9s T8s

Sure the raise and all the cold-calls put a lot of money in the pot... but you are totally out of position with a hand that is often dominated.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
if you think a 17% VP$IP is too loose, then you're way too tight

[/ QUOTE ]

i have trouble keeping my vpip under 20.

[jrobb83]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
if you think a 17% VP$IP is too loose, then you're way too tight



i have trouble keeping my vpip under 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine also likes to huddle right around 20.

But I suck at poker.

[MAxx]

i am calling a raise with any 2 suited from bb with 4+ multiway, which is an uncharacteristy loose pf play for me.
My VPIP is at 18.01. is any 2s far too loose? i am guessing that you would say of course.

[sthief09]

yes and yes

[sthief09]

it's probably too loose but I wouldn't say "far too loose"