Flop play correct?

[MHarris]

No specific reads, table is generally loose passive.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

I thought a raise here would clean up my overcard outs and maybe get a small PP to fold. However, from the check-3-bet, it's pretty obvious that BB has an 8.

Turn: (9.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

Comments on all streets appreciated.

Mike

[MHarris]

bump

[Lost Wages]

You should 3 bet preflop. I agree that raising the flop is best.

Lost Wages

[lil']

Your pre-flop and flop plays are inconsistent. Pre-flop, you call instead of three betting, then you raise the flop like you can beat whatever MP1 is playing all of a sudden.

3 bet preflop and plan to bet the flop.

I thought a raise here would clean up my overcard outs
I see this a lot lately, does anyone even know what it means? What overcard outs are you cleaning up here? Even if someone has A-2, an ace falling on the turn gives you the better hand.

Raising this flop is OK if you think you can get it heads up with the raiser and you think your hand may be better than his.

If you are certain BB has an 8, then calling the raise is pretty iffy. I know the pot is large, but you need to catch runner runner here to win.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

I thought a raise here would clean up my overcard outs and maybe get a small PP to fold. However, from the check-3-bet, it's pretty obvious that BB has an 8.



[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious to me also...so why aren't you folding?

[MHarris]

Even given the read, why would I fold for one small bet when there are 16 already in the pot. At Party 2/4, this read will be wrong once in 16 times, and someone will make this play with 77 or less. Is the fold correct then?

[chesspain]

I misread the action, thinking you had to call two on the flop. Although calling for one more might be O.K., you are calling a check-threebet on a paired board with only overcards and a backdoor flush draw. Not a good situation in which to be.

[MHarris]

Agreed...it's a rough situation. And, as lil pointed out to me, there's a decent chance I'll have to go runner-runner to take this pot (and possibly still lose with the flush). I guess thinking of it that way, this play is much closer between a fold and a call than I thought.

[sinfulslick18]

reraise preflop...controll the table...its a solid hand

[BottlesOf]

Raise preflop. Other than that, looks coo.

[MHarris]

Your pre-flop and flop plays are inconsistent. Pre-flop, you call instead of three betting, then you raise the flop like you can beat whatever MP1 is playing all of a sudden.

Agreed.

Raising this flop is OK if you think you can get it heads up with the raiser and you think your hand may be better than his.

This was the best situation i could hope for, and I'd be OK as long as I'm HU with AQ, AJ, KQ, and maybe AK with a decent shot at taking the pot down on the turn if it blanks off.

I see this a lot lately, does anyone even know what it means? What overcard outs are you cleaning up here? Even if someone has A-2, an ace falling on the turn gives you the better hand.

Sorry...posted before I had any caffeine. What I meant by that was I felt there was a possibility (although unlikely) that BB or UTG played AK very passively PF (this was a fairly common occurrence at this table), and confronting them with two cold and inducing a fold would clean up my A outs if this was the case. This is still probably too marginal to have much value anyway.

If you are certain BB has an 8, then calling the raise is pretty iffy. I know the pot is large, but you need to catch runner runner here to win.

Although I'm not positive that BB has an 8 (which I thought I'd have to be to fold for one bet here), it does seem likely. However, I hardly gave a thought to the fact that BB could have an 8 (maybe even 22), hit his kicker, and I could make the flush and still lose. This actually makes the play a much more likely fold for me....although I wouldn't be too happy about it.

Thanks for your critique and insight.