TT in MP1

[Fiddler]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Looks like at least two of them are drawing or don't like their hands too much.

River: (9.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

Should I have raised the flop? And if so, why?

[CWsports]

Raise the flop and force MP2 to call to 2 bets to continue. You need to protect your hand against any A,K,Q, or J. By not raising there's a good chance he will call a single bet and draw to 2 overcards or even 1 overcard assuming the typical Party player.

The turn is a Q. By not raising you could have let MP2 win the pot with Qx.

[Peter Harris]

this is virtually identical to the "two overpair hands" section in SSHE. you have a vulnerable overpair sensitive to spades, A, K, Q, Js, the straight draw. you MUST raise the flop to force players out who may call one bet with an overcard to your TT.

Regards,
Pete Harris

[Fiddler]

[ QUOTE ]
this is virtually identical to the "two overpair hands" section in SSHE. you have a vulnerable overpair sensitive to spades, A, K, Q, Js, the straight draw. you MUST raise the flop to force players out who may call one bet with an overcard to your TT.

Regards,
Pete Harris

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I didn't because I could only make a single player face 2 bets, not too sure though it was pretty late. Ugh... I feel weak. Time to skim through SSH again.

[cold_cash]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, according to SSH raising this flop is not the best play.

[Peter Harris]

(See reply to cold_cash)

[Peter Harris]

you're right, there are very few differences to the example on page 187 - one less opponent, slightly more aggressive action.

Raising forces 1 out of 3 to call 2 cold, the rest stay in and you're vulnerable. Waiting till the turn is a good idea, sorry for misleading you. I think waiting beats jamming the pot and only [possibly] folding out 1 of 3.

Regards,
Pete Harris

(who is off to reread SSHE, as i perverted its teachings)

[Fiddler]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless I'm misunderstanding, according to SSH raising this flop is not the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is almost the same situation except that in SSH he has TT on the button and there are a lot of players that have already called one or two bets. In my hand I have the opportunity to fold 1/3 of my opponents.

So I'm still not sure what to do on the flop...

[CWsports]

In the TT example in SSHE the pot is 19.5 SB when it reaches you. If you call the 2 bets that's 21.5 SB which is 10.75 BB. If you raise in this situation then once everyone calls there will be 12+ BB in the pot. By raising the flop you've now made it correct for someone with as little as a guthshot to draw on the turn and river.

In your example there are only 11 SB in the pot when the betting reaches you on the flop. If you raise and knock out MP2 then their will be 7.5 BB in the pot before the turn if SB and UTG+1 call the raise which they should do.

By raising the flop in this example you now force the other 2 callers to have better draws for them to draw correctly to the river. In the SSHE example, by raising, you make it so someone with as little as 4 outs is correct to draw to the river.

[Fiddler]

SB shows T /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif for a pair of nines. MHIG.

[Peter Harris]

nice hand. i thought you were good.

i think from the debate more and more that both are viable options. Less handed, slightly less "bad" cards, chance to fold out 1 - raise. Harsh deck, low prob. of folding out one - call. Either way is probably acceptable.

Well played,
Pete Harris

[frank_iii]

I raise in this position because I'd raise if I had AA or 44 or 33 or 99. Why try to get cute when you probably have the best hand and can knock someone out?