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View Full Version : The Bellagio Big Boys: Wakeup Call to Daniel N


08-10-2002, 09:07 AM
All this comparison of, for instance, Doyle Brunson to Tiger woods, is totally myopic. Because poker, more than golf or basketball or business, is a game based on sorting by other than skill. And nor am I referring to Tom Weideman's 25 years of variance. Rather, I would contend that the so-called Bellagio Big Boys may actually be the most mundane players, nearest to the center of the bell.


One participant argued that The Bellagio Big Boys didn't necessarily have any particular skill but, rather, were sorted into that group by their pre-existing wealth. You then countered that Xiao, or whatever his name is, started out in this country as a dishwasher. But what you are missing, is that these are two sides of the same coin. Being so rich you don't have to work, and lacking education, language skills, and networking contacts, are both things which keep you out of the mainstream workforce.


There is no question that the real freaks are the 80-160 artists like Abdul Jalib, the ones posting in 2+2's mid/high-stakes forum who can beat Paradise 20-40 as easily as Commerce on a Friday night. These Big Boys specifically defend themselves against the freaks with their mixed games, games for which there is no Such-And-Such Poker for Advanced Players. The reason I know this, is because I myself realize how by mixing up the game, and raising the stakes to keep out everyone but businessmen, I could defend myself against these better players.


Pretty much everyone who has any propensity to be good at golf, has tried golf, and has had a chance to discover his own skill, outside the camouflage of random variation. Poker, however, is a game of failure, a game which MIT dropouts are forced into to reconstruct their own self esteem. The least likely people ever to be backed into a poker career, are the people with the exact type of interpersonal skills and connecting ability exhibited by The Bellagio Big Boys.


There is no question The Bellagio Big Boys have very good card sense in addition to reading skills. But unlike the mid-limit math freaks and multi-way artists, there may be literally millions of people with these same skills as The Bellagio Big Boys, who would never take the "pay cut" of playing 1500-3000 four hours a week. I would go so far as to say that mainstream businessmen, who are any good at poker at all, are less outmatched in these lively gamesmanship games than in the esoteric/grind-it-out strategy games.


I'd volunteer to play Jennifer Harmon heads-up at Paradise any day, except for one thing: Mr. Fed-Ex, and probably a few other people, are apparently willing to do the job so I don't need to. And don't give me this pay-cut crap, just saying that Ted Turner is too busy running a media empire to play golf, doesn't mean he could automatically win at golf. The Bellagio Big Boys have a good thing going, but it is only inside their own little aquarium, where they are exposed only to other people like them, and the 80-160 pros are the real freaks.


Don't you get it? Reading skills are common! It is the salesmen, and the people with the interpersonal skills, beating up on the engineers and putting them in little boxes in every area of human endeavour. The fact that a handful of people with these skills, who also have the engineering skills, would ever even try poker in the first place, is no evidence that they are better at engineering than the engineers. You're just having exposed to you, when you play them, what most people in the real world are like.


In conclusion, it is specialized or limited skills, not general or common skills, which move you out into the tails of the bell. Most people who would be better at poker, are also better at other things, and lack the gambling jones to ever climb the poker learning curve. The fact that a few freaks from the middle of the bell, would find themselves on the outskirts of the poker world, is just evidence of some handicap that hit them at some point in their lives.


eLROY

08-10-2002, 02:29 PM

08-10-2002, 03:44 PM

08-10-2002, 03:51 PM
This post is better than anything you've ever written.

08-10-2002, 06:08 PM
Did you mean 15-30?

08-10-2002, 07:55 PM
understand what eLROY is telling you...

08-11-2002, 01:06 AM
I rarely read eLROY. But, I agree - this is an interesting post. "A Poker Bell Curve" theory.


-Zeno

08-11-2002, 11:36 PM
I rarely read eLROY's posts anymore, due to some of the sickening posts on the "other topics" forum that he was responsible for.


However, this one is the best post I have ever seen form him, or anyone else in recent memory.


It would be interesting to hear what some of the other more distinguished posters thought of it. Although, I wonder if I am not the only one who tends to ignore eLROY.


Adam.