citanul
09-18-2004, 11:32 AM
I've got a question about the following hand and followup commentary from Daliman.
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter
Hero (t965)
Button (t1210)
SB (t945)
BB (t715)
UTG (t845)
UTG+1 (t2265)
MP1 (t920)
MP2 (t1160)
MP3 (t975)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A, A.
UTG raises to t60, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t60, Hero raises to t250, Button calls t250, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP3 calls t190.
Flop: (t855) 9, T, 8 (3 players)
MP3 bets t30, Hero raises to t715 (All-In), Button folds, MP3 calls t685.
Turn: (t2285) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: (t2285) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Final Pot: t2285
Results in white below:
MP3 has 8h Th (two pair, tens and eights).
Hero has Ac As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: MP3 wins t2285.
So I was actually IN position on the initail flop bettor and eventual winner, and RAISED allin another 685 into an 885 pot after MP3 made a weak bet out. Considering the preflop call, he is going to call with any 7 or J, and be getting proper odds to do so, and is also going to likely call any 8, 9, and DEFINITLEY T.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now, I win at the SnGs. However, I don't do it while playing good NL. So, this question is clearly going to seem a little stupid (perhaps a lot stupid).
Re:
[ QUOTE ]
Considering the preflop call, he is going to call with any 7 or J, and be getting proper odds to do so
[/ QUOTE ]
Do people here (or at least some people) agree that if you have a draw that you are getting proper odds for, you should call it, even if it is an all in call? (IE, early in tournament, do you play strictly based on chip EV, instead of thinking "well, I'm on a draw, if I lose, I'm out, so I'll fold here and wait for a time when I think I'm ahead.") So, that covers the J or 7 in Daliman's statement.
Now, since I'm bad at NL (weak tight), I also was somewhat astounded by the following statement
[ QUOTE ]
and is also going to likely call any 8, 9, and DEFINITLEY T
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Does anyone call here with any 8 or 9? Like I said, I'm really weak tight, and given the opportunity to be left with a lot of chips, (alright, not a lot) this doesn't look like a great time to be getting in there with anything less than top pair, certainly. I may even muck a weak top pair hand here, if anyone wants to start taking shots at me. Then again, there's no chance I'd have a weak top pair hand here. Anyway, what do people think here, would anyone call with a 8 or 9?
Please do help a bit, I find that I give up too much in these things, and need to work on my NL game in general.
citanul
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter
Hero (t965)
Button (t1210)
SB (t945)
BB (t715)
UTG (t845)
UTG+1 (t2265)
MP1 (t920)
MP2 (t1160)
MP3 (t975)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A, A.
UTG raises to t60, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t60, Hero raises to t250, Button calls t250, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP3 calls t190.
Flop: (t855) 9, T, 8 (3 players)
MP3 bets t30, Hero raises to t715 (All-In), Button folds, MP3 calls t685.
Turn: (t2285) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: (t2285) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Final Pot: t2285
Results in white below:
MP3 has 8h Th (two pair, tens and eights).
Hero has Ac As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: MP3 wins t2285.
So I was actually IN position on the initail flop bettor and eventual winner, and RAISED allin another 685 into an 885 pot after MP3 made a weak bet out. Considering the preflop call, he is going to call with any 7 or J, and be getting proper odds to do so, and is also going to likely call any 8, 9, and DEFINITLEY T.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now, I win at the SnGs. However, I don't do it while playing good NL. So, this question is clearly going to seem a little stupid (perhaps a lot stupid).
Re:
[ QUOTE ]
Considering the preflop call, he is going to call with any 7 or J, and be getting proper odds to do so
[/ QUOTE ]
Do people here (or at least some people) agree that if you have a draw that you are getting proper odds for, you should call it, even if it is an all in call? (IE, early in tournament, do you play strictly based on chip EV, instead of thinking "well, I'm on a draw, if I lose, I'm out, so I'll fold here and wait for a time when I think I'm ahead.") So, that covers the J or 7 in Daliman's statement.
Now, since I'm bad at NL (weak tight), I also was somewhat astounded by the following statement
[ QUOTE ]
and is also going to likely call any 8, 9, and DEFINITLEY T
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Does anyone call here with any 8 or 9? Like I said, I'm really weak tight, and given the opportunity to be left with a lot of chips, (alright, not a lot) this doesn't look like a great time to be getting in there with anything less than top pair, certainly. I may even muck a weak top pair hand here, if anyone wants to start taking shots at me. Then again, there's no chance I'd have a weak top pair hand here. Anyway, what do people think here, would anyone call with a 8 or 9?
Please do help a bit, I find that I give up too much in these things, and need to work on my NL game in general.
citanul