A hand worthy of discussion

[Alobar]

table has been bordering on tight passive

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $5.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 8.50 BB, between UTG+1 and Hero.</font>

[balkii]

QJo is a pretty routine muck for me in that spot PF...?

flop raise looks good, as does the turn and river play. i'm not particularly worried about the A, UTGs turn bet is frequently a stopngo with a T.

[thirddan]

i agree with balkii

i muck this preflop and postflop is fine...

[pstripling]

If the table was tight/passive I think a fold on the flop would be correct. The turn would have been an ideal place to fold. If you think your hand is good then a raise would have been appropriate.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
If the table was tight/passive I think a fold on the flop would be correct. The turn would have been an ideal place to fold. If you think your hand is good then a raise would have been appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the turn I pick up a double gutshot, so I cant fold.

[thirddan]

on the flop Hero has two overcards and a gutshot, his raise could free some outs and possibly buy a free card...on the turn he has a double gutshot...

[Alobar]

with the table being tight and passive I was loosening up preflop since I didnt have to worry about a raise.

[Yeknom58]

why not raise then if you're going to play. I still like a fold though.

[pstripling]

I didn't notice that it was a double gutshot the first time I read....missed the 8. Yeah, you have to call the turn in this spot now. Which sets up the call on the river as well. The only thing that bothers me about this hand is the tight/passive label you put on it. On a LAG table the play is fine. Tight/Passive people do not bet into raisers unless they have what they are representing, but once we are past the preflop and flop stages the hand plays itself. Hopefully UTG had something like 9T/KT/JT instead of AJ/AT.

[Yeknom58]

Tight and passive huh.

I might have saved a bet on the end. Againsts a tight passive player I don't think you're good 1-7 on the river. In the heat of the moment I probably would have called expecting this call to be, at best, even money in the long run.

[pstripling]

The tight/passive table label is what bothers me so much about this hand. The overcards we can't count as full outs because UTG could easily have JT/QT. The double gut shot draw opens things up a little on the turn. But if this table is tight/passive how much does one expect to make from a lone opponent if the draw gets there? If this table was LAG, or if the opponent was LAG, then I think the play is fine. But with the table being tight/passive I see this hand as -EV. Your hand is either no good, or you won't make much if it gets good.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Tight and passive huh.

I might have saved a bet on the end. Againsts a tight passive player I don't think you're good 1-7 on the river. In the heat of the moment I probably would have called expecting this call to be, at best, even money in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

the table was tight passive, not every single player

I think if he has a hand with an ace, that was worthy of betting the flop, he would have checkraised the turn with his now 2 pair, so I think ive got a pretty good chance of being ahead with my queens

[pokerkai]

Normally Id muck, but if youve got a read and are gonna play, I dont see why you shouldnt open raise.

Postflop is fine.

[Yeknom58]

I don't think 2 pair or any Ace is going to CR the turn but that's beside the point if my opponent is tight and passive I think the river call is close at best, if I had no read I'll probably call down everytime.