Two AA hands I didn't like

[DeeJ]

Table is average, around 35% seeing the flop. Table same for both hands although none of the participants are common to the hand (apart from Hero)....

Hand 1, Villain is Mr Loose who VP$IP is 50% but has been killing me routinely with trash.

Hand 2 the UTG+1 is passive slightly loose, MP1 is tight if a bit passive, but doesn't get much out of line (aggr factor 0.68 according to PT), MP2 is very loose passive 57% VPIP.

Hand 1:

Paradise Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP2 folds, Mr Loose calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.
Plenty of bets. Good

Flop: (10.40 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Mr Loose raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.
Unthreatening flop, but has villain hit? Let's hope he has a king and will call when I decide to bet into him on the turn
Turn: (7.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Mr Loose raises</font>, Hero calls.
Unfortunately it looks like he did better than pair a king
River: (11.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Mr Loose bets</font>, Hero calls.
check call this down
Final Pot: 13.20 BB

Hand 2:

Paradise Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.
Yay, capped 5 ways

Flop: (21 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.
Failed check raise. None of these guys are loose after all and clearly have zip of this flop
Turn: (10.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.
uh oh
River: (18.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.
Good. Showdown for free, doesn't look like anyone has the str8
Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Comments? Any guesses as to what various holdings were?

[Evan]

Hand 1 is fine
Hand 2 I don't like much. I'd rather just lead the flop. After you cap it, going for a check-raise doesn't make much sense. When he raises your turn bet I'd reraise when it cam back to me. In this case a turn raise probably doesn't mean anything more than top pair, maybe something like TT or JJ. Bet the river for the same reasons.

[MoreWineII]

It sounds like Mr. Loose is actually a maniac, correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore, I'm rammin' &amp; jammin' with him all the way on hand 1. I 3-bet the flop, call a cap, and lead the turn. If he can raise me there, then I probably go into call down mode.

Hand 2, bet the flop. On the turn, what hand are you putting MP1 on that he beats you with? He *did* open-raise PF. Did he raise with 10-8? 5-8? 99/77/66? 99 seems the most likely, but not enough for me to slow down yet. I 3-bet there, I think. And call down any subsequent raises.

[DeeJ]

On hand 2 I fully expected someone to bet the flop. Checking round 5 ways was not something I expected with two other raisers preflop. Anyway, it had been capped 5 ways so it wasn't too bad on the cheap streets. When I was raised on the turn I didn't like it because I respected a turn raise into numerous other players from the tight player. He could have an overpair or a slow played or turned set, so I was content to call it down from there on.

[ErrantNight]

second hand: weak. very weak. lead the bet on the flop and after. you might find yourself behind... but you're likely ahead. that's a perfect flop to bet, 3-bet if it's raised. come now. you've been beaten by [censored], but if they've got [censored] and they haven't hit it, quit giving them free cards! even if you can't get them to fold... don't give them infinite odds. no one w/ high cards is gonna bet this. JJ and TT aren't gonna bet this. AA should bet this.

[ErrantNight]

hand 1 so weak... you call him mr. loose and are afraid when he raises? don't pay attention to the monsters in the closet. you've got a monster on a semi-coordinated board. a high K (AK or KQ, maybe even KJ) with someone this loose might get him excited... he can't have a straight draw until the turn... so either he's way ahead (KK, 88, 33, K8... the latter of which still gives you plentiful outs to redraw against) or way behind (any Kx hand, or high kicker K hand, or a flush draw)... he's FAR more likely to have any of the latter... sure he could have a miracle hand, but he just as likely has a worse hand or a flush draw... make him pay.

this is a perfect board to jam until you see him go off the wall. a raise could mean a lot of things, and here it looks like it accomplished scaring you away from betting when you should have. part of the reason there are downswings on party and elsewhere is you'll get caught by fish playing hands they shouldn't multiple times in a row. don't make this decrease your winnings later when they whiff on their terrible draws.

[DeeJ]

I hear what you're saying, but Mr Loose is not Mr Maniac. He tends to call down to hit his long shots ... at least this was my memory at the time. This raise seemed threatening even holding Aces, which I would like to ram and jam as you suggest!

[Alexthegreat]

Hand 1

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is Mr Loose who VP$IP is 50% but has been killing me routinely with trash

[/ QUOTE ]

That is your problem for this hand...3-bet and call a cap, lead the turn and call down if you are raised.....Why are you stop and go'n a guy like this?? If he has a king.....he is in the hand the whole way, and you want to raise as many times as you can....If he has something better than a King, he is gonna raise the turn after your stop n'go.....He will have one pair much more often then he has 2 pair or a set, so giving him a discount when he holds second best will kill your winnings.....

Hand 2

Bet this flop......When you lead on the turn, it looks like you have a hand like AK and missed, so MP1 raises you with his TT or JJ....THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT.....I 3-bet the turn, and only slowdown to a cap.....You can't just play for showdowns with your aces.....I don't think I've ever had em and let 2 streets get checked through....

[DeeJ]

erm Hand 1 I did 3-bet and it was not capped. I did lead the turn but even though he is loose Mr Loose is not terrible enough to raise unless he beats most good king hands. Would he be raising here with AK? Yes, but also with two pair or a set.

Hand 2 I think you're right about the 3-bet. Luckily being weak on this occasion paid off /images/graemlins/smile.gif as you will see.

Results to follow ...

[DeeJ]

Hand 1 Villain has K8 for flopped 2 pair.

Hand 2 UTG+1 has 9T for weak turned top pair, MP1 takes it down with 99, turned set. MP2 had K9.

Conclusion - Hand 1 if I capped the flop it cost me a small bet extra; would he have slowed down if I had then led the turn and not raised me? I doubt it. After the hand he claimed he put me on aces from preflop!

Hand 2 : I think 3 betting the turn has to be theoretically correct, although it saved me good here (as did the river possible straight which stopped MP1 from betting). MP1 can well have TT or JJ and play the same, although he was weak not to bet the flop - maybe he was going for the check raise too with 99.