Buying A Diamond?

[BusterStacks]

anyone have experience in this field? I went to a jeweler today and was quoted ~5500$ for a nice 1ctw diamond stone. He said he couldn't budge on the price of the stone, but would include the setting for free (?). What is the typical markup? Anyway to buy quality stuff for way cheaper? I'd like to get married (+EV) but don't have the bankroll.

[stripsqueez]

a big rock was hush money to get she who must be obeyed to stop hating me playing lots of cards + i never bothered getting married which was ok but i coped repeated flak for the failure to produce a rock

i did the research - diamonds are an interesting study - they are graded for several quality aspects - colour, flaws etc - you can buy a 4 ctw diamond for the same price as a good quality .8ctw diamond

the gradings used arent terribly practical - for example spending a heap more for near perfect clarity isnt neccesary if the same diamond 4 grades down looks exactly the same to the naked eye

i eventually found a great jeweller who bothered to explain all this stuff to me and ultimately showed me about 10 diamonds which were around what i wanted so i could see the differences - the highlight of this was checking them out through a jewellers magnifying glass - i finally had some appreciation for why the little things cost so much

in the end i spent about 8K US on a very good quality 1ctw diamond - i was going to choose the setting but after some thought i just gave her the diamond as is and paid for the setting that she chose - an average setting/ring would of cost me about $800US

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[wacki]

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i finally had some appreciation for why the little things cost so much

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Diamonds are expensive because De Beers owns all of the mines and price fixes them artificially high. If I remember correctly there are "more common" stones such rubies and saphires that are much cheaper in consumer cost, but are actually rarer. I forget which ones they are though.

[superleeds]

The mark up is huge. Fortunately my sister's best friend's husband is a jeweller and he got me one at cost. He also gave me valuation documentation for insurance purposes based on the cost of replacement. It was over 3 times what I payed.

PS Don't tell the wife /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[OrangeHeat]

I picked up a H color VS2 1.0 carat for about $3500 after asking to deal directly with the owner of the Jewelry store.

You have to do some work and be willing to deal as they estimated value at $7500 (way overblown) and had a sticker of $5200 on it. The clerk was allowed to go down to $4500 and the owner went down to $3500. So remember they have huge mark-up 300%ish seems accurate from the other poster.

Do a google on 4C's of diamonds and you can decide what tradeoff's you want to make. If you want big and don't mind some flaws that are only visible under 10x magnification then you can make that trade-off.
Link to 4c's (http://www.ljotw.com/4cs.asp)

Orange

[elwoodblues]

The price is usually negotiable on fine jewelry. Shop around if they are unwilling to negotiate. As has been mentioned before the 4 C's are what determines the cost:

Cut
Clarity
Carat
Color

The one that is most overlooked is Cut, but it can make a HUGE difference on the diamond. For lack of a better way of explaining it, an ideal cut diamond (or near ideal) has much more sparkle than others. Make sure to look at several diamonds before deciding. Often you will find one that is slightly smaller and slightly lesser grade in color but for some reason it just speaks to you (when I was shopping, it was usually the cut that made the difference). Make sure to go to a jeweler who will spend time explaining these things to you. It's a big investment so take your time with it. I found that small stores were pretty good to work with. I tended to avoid the chain/mall stores. Good luck.

[Ray Zee]

jewlers mark up cheaper items three times and double more expensive stuff. so in general figure one half is what he pays. and he gets to buy it on whats called memo and hold it for 90 days or so before he has to commit to sell.
most bigger shops wont deal but many real small ones will as if they have a bigger stone they are probably stuck with it. only deal with an owner.
ive sold lots of diamonds. for what you want get at least h color and vs2. make sure it has some kind of GIA appraisal of its color and clarity and not some third party bull.

[scotnt73]

they should negotiate. if not go somewhere else. its like buying cars-never take the first price offered. i bought my wifes ring 3 years ago at a very nice local jewelry store. the price on the ring was 3,200. after 30 minutes of haggeling and acting like i was going to go somewhere else i walked out with it for 2100 total out of pocket. so the mark up is HUGE.

[scotnt73]

[ QUOTE ]
they should negotiate. if not go somewhere else. its like buying cars-never take the first price offered. i bought my wifes ring 3 years ago at a very nice local jewelry store. the price on the ring was 3,200. after 30 minutes of haggeling and acting like i was going to go somewhere else i walked out with it for 2100 total out of pocket. so the mark up is HUGE.

[/ QUOTE ]

also about a month later i got the paperwork in the mail for it saying its apraised value was something rediculous like 4500$ so dont pay any attention to appraised value on jewelry when buying.

[turnipmonster]

ideally you want to deal as high up the chain as possible. I recently bought a diamond, and through a friend of a friend I got hooked up with a wholesaler in nyc who was willing to deal (albeit cash only). as others have said, read about the 4C's. I thought the color was the most important aspect to me, as it was visible with the naked eye whereas a lot of things you have look at lot closer (i.e. magnifying glass) to see.

as a side note, you tend to pay a lot more for 1 carat than something like .97 carat diamonds, and you can't really tell the difference.

--turnipmonster

[turnipmonster]

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ive sold lots of diamonds.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey ray, it seems like you have done a lot of interesting stuff other than crushing NL games. have you had other jobs ever? I was under the impression you just played cards.

--turnipmonster

[Mano]

I went through the same deal a few years back. Here is an online sites that sell a lot of diamonds:

Blue Nile (http://www.bluenile.com/)

Whether or not you buy from Blue Nile, the website should give you a good idea of what you can expect to pay for various combinations of color, size and clarity. They also have all the certificates (GIA, etc.) available to view online. Like Zee said, I would probably get at least H color and VS2 clarity. If set in yellow gold, I don't know if it is worth the additional cost to get D/E colors, as the diamond picks up some yellow light from the ring, whereas with a platinum ring the color difference is more apparent. Stay away from the mall jewlers, as their markup is usually outrageous. Take your time, and get something nice - better to pay now than for the rest of your marriage /images/graemlins/wink.gif . Hope this helps.

[ericd]

NYC - 47th between 5th and 6th has many stores. The amount you save should be more than the cost of the trip.

[Analyst]

I don't know if there's one in your area, but if possible, find an honest-to-goodness diamond broker and buy the stone loose. Then find a setting that your fiancee likes and get it mounted.

Brokers price their stones based off a set pricing sheet - it was the same at every broker I went to; basically, for stones in a given size range, it gives a per-carat price based on color and clarity.

By the way, don't get too caught up in a stone's particular color or clarity rating - once mounted, it's very difficult to tell the difference in color between any stones say, I or better, and remember that VS2 flaws can only be seen under magnification. In other words, don't buy an E VVS1 over a G VS2 just because of the ratings - you're paying for something that you won't really see in the ring on her finger. We wound up getting an F VVS2, but that was mainly because it was a beautifully cut stone - and cut is something that you'll be able to tell even when mounted.

Most importantly, congratulations!

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
anyone have experience in this field? I went to a jeweler today and was quoted ~5500$ for a nice 1ctw diamond stone. He said he couldn't budge on the price of the stone, but would include the setting for free (?). What is the typical markup? Anyway to buy quality stuff for way cheaper? I'd like to get married (+EV) but don't have the bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, that's way too much. Get a nice, clear diamond that's smaller, in a setting that still shows it off.

This is on the small side, but I got a little over a 1/3 carat diamond plus ring for around $1200.

Tell your girl that'd you'd rather spend your money on dinners, vacations, etc... rather than a rock that's just going to sit on her hand.

[superleeds]

[ QUOTE ]
Tell your girl that'd you'd rather spend your money on dinners, vacations, etc... rather than a rock that's just going to sit on her hand.


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I'm assuming your not very experienced with women, at least not ones you intend to marry /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[SomethingClever]

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Tell your girl that'd you'd rather spend your money on dinners, vacations, etc... rather than a rock that's just going to sit on her hand.


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I'm assuming your not very experienced with women, at least not ones you intend to marry /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What gives you that idea? I'm married. My wife much prefers these things to having a bigger rock. I don't think she's the only one.

[Duke]

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This is on the small side, but I got a little over a 1/3 carat diamond plus ring for around $1200.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that wasn't at least D VVS1 Ideal methinks you got jacked.

I'd tend to go with buying something online, and then if you want to go nuts on the setting find a good jeweler. The ratings are pretty important for actual value.

You can get a 1 ct diamond for a low price, and she might not be able to tell that it's all screwed up without a microscope. But you'll know.

Prepare to spend upwards of $20k for a 1 ct D Flawless Ideal stone.

Then again, I don't think like a woman. I'd rather have a .2 ct perfect diamond than a 5 ct D VVS2 Good one.

~D

[scotnt73]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tell your girl that'd you'd rather spend your money on dinners, vacations, etc... rather than a rock that's just going to sit on her hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming your not very experienced with women, at least not ones you intend to marry /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What gives you that idea? I'm married. My wife much prefers these things to having a bigger rock. I don't think she's the only one.

[/ QUOTE ]

i bet she also told you that size doesnt matter /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[superleeds]

n/m

[SomethingClever]

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This is on the small side, but I got a little over a 1/3 carat diamond plus ring for around $1200.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that wasn't at least D VVS1 Ideal methinks you got jacked.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not up on the 4 C's (or whatever ratings they use) anymore, but I remember it was one notch below top clarity. I compared it against many other diamonds and it seemed quite brilliant.

But in any case, any woman that is pushing you [not you personally, Duke] to get a bigger diamond than you can afford or think is reasonable is going to be trouble, trouble, trouble down the road.

If you're a true baller, you don't need to waste your money on this price-fixed industry, anyway. Except to get diamond inserts into your own gold teeth.

[Analyst]

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Then again, I don't think like a woman. I'd rather have a .2 ct perfect diamond than a 5 ct D VVS2 Good one.


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Without questioning preferences, the definition of VVS2 is "Inclusions very difficult to see under 10X magnification."

If you're buying the diamond for jewelry then there's no meaningful difference between flawless and VVS2, though I do understand the enjoyment of knowing you have the best.

[Easy E]

[ QUOTE ]
I went to a jeweler today and was quoted ~5500$ for a nice 1ctw diamond stone..... I'd like to get married (+EV) but don't have the bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]


Are you SURE it's a +EV decision if 1 ct seems to be the minimum buy-in and you can't afford the buy-in?

if you can't spot the sucker at the (altar)table, then...

[Ray Zee]

turnipmonster, i can honestly say i have never had a job in my life.

[Senor Choppy]

It's a lot easier to shop for a new girlfriend than for a cheap diamond. My wife knew in advance there wasn't a chance in hell of me shelling out more than $500 on a wedding ring.

BTW, marriage is so -EV it's disgusting. The only legitimate reasons for doing it are your girlfriend is pregnant or you're marrying for money.