1st ventures into NL ring play

[NNH]

Hello all,

This is my first of hopefully quite a few posts in this forum. I'm mostly an SNG player, and have decided to give NL ring games a shot. I'm going to start at the Stars .10/.25 game and work my way up from there. Started w/ $50 yesterday. Wish me luck.

Here's a hand that I have some questions about. A little background... I have been at the table for about an hour and built up a nice stack. Button has not been at table for long, but has been pretty tight so far. I've been bullying the table since it got down to about 4 players since I had a nice chip lead. It's been heads up between me and button for about 15 hands. He caught on to my blind stealing and has reraised me a few hands now.

So here's the hand in question...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (2 handed)

Button ($9.05)
Hero ($30)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 4. Button posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero calls $0.15, Button (poster) checks.

Flop: ($0.50) T, 9, J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.5, Button raises to $1, Hero raises to $23.25, Button calls $7.80 (All-In).

Turn: ($32.55) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($32.55) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $32.55


Here's my thinking. Small semi-bluff on the flop. He raises min, so I'm thinking he has part of flop, but likely not a great hand at all. Maybe 2nd button, or Jx. I decide to push hoping for a fold, but still having outs in case of a call.

What do you put Button on?
What's a better line for this hand?

Thanks in advance.

[wdbaker]

[ QUOTE ]
Hello all,

This is my first of hopefully quite a few posts in this forum. I'm mostly an SNG player, and have decided to give NL ring games a shot. I'm going to start at the Stars .10/.25 game and work my way up from there. Started w/ $50 yesterday. Wish me luck.

Here's a hand that I have some questions about. A little background... I have been at the table for about an hour and built up a nice stack. Button has not been at table for long, but has been pretty tight so far. I've been bullying the table since it got down to about 4 players since I had a nice chip lead. It's been heads up between me and button for about 15 hands. He caught on to my blind stealing and has reraised me a few hands now.

So here's the hand in question...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (2 handed)

Button ($9.05)
Hero ($30)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 4. Button posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero calls $0.15, Button (poster) checks.

[/ QUOTE ]



Fold, 8 4 must be right up there with 7 2 off, but you didn't so lets continue

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: ($0.50) T, 9, J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.5, Button raises to $1, Hero raises to $23.25, Button calls $7.80 (All-In).

[/ QUOTE ]



You don't have odds to call. You raise the pot with open ended Str8, sucker side down, a value, info raise, or trying for a free card I guess maybe, trying to see where you're ahead or behind. If your stealing, not enough bet should be at least 3-4 times, value- pot ok, buying free card - at least 2 to 3 times pot.


when button raised your bet what did you think he was raising with, at least a pair if not the money end of the str8.


Then you reraise him for his whole hand, did you really want him to go all in hear, you have nothing


Honest, what were you doing, when he reraised you didn't that send bells off in your head, either check or fold here, not take him all in with nothing while possibly drawing dead

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: ($32.55) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($32.55) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $32.55


Here's my thinking. Small semi-bluff on the flop. He raises min, so I'm thinking he has part of flop, but likely not a great hand at all. Maybe 2nd button, or Jx. I decide to push hoping for a fold, but still having outs in case of a call.

What do you put Button on?
What's a better line for this hand?

Thanks in advance.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are all looking to play against people like you. Really though, pickup a few books, post more hands hear etc...

If you won with this I'm afraid it will set a bad example for the way you play in the future, so in a gentle hearted way I hope he had the str8

You asked, sorry if I sound rude

One Street at a Time
wdbaker Denver, Co

[BobboFitos]

From what I gather, this is HU, so 84 isn't terrible...
But even heads up I'd still fold it. It really is terrible, contradictory to what I just said. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

In terms of the rest of the play, post oaking and getting min raised, well... I dont think he was min raising you as a bluff or a weak bet. It's in my experience that the min raise is to build the pot, precisely because he HAS something better than 2nd pair or the like as you advocate.
Your semi bluff is then bad for two reasons:
1. I dont think you have good fold equity, as he has suggested through his play that he DOES like something about the flop
2. You are drawing for a 1 card straight, plus it's the low end. As the previous poster pointed out, you could be dead in the water. Let's hope not, but we dont know your 8 outs are clean, either.

All in all, this hand leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Throw away 84. Even heads up. Also, you might want to try posting this in the shorthanded forum, as players there have more experience playing heads up in these situations.

[LokiV]

You don't have the bankroll necessary to play this. I would recommend 10 max buy ins. Which would be $250 at .10/.25. If you go for less, especially just $50, you're taking a risk of busting out from a bad streak.

[The4thFilm]

Bullying and chip lead are words you associate with tournament play, not ring games.

[GimmeDaWatch]

I dont get it? Big risk, small reward, crap hand with tenuous "outs". Ive played this game alot on Stars also and a min-raise does not necessarily mean he's got a hand he can be pushed off of. He could simply be trying to milk money from you, as it appears he was. There's no need to be reckless in this game, just play solid and take advantage of those who dont, and occasionally bluff bluffable players when the time is right.

[NNH]

Thanks for all the replies. No offense taken, that's why I posted the hand. Glad to see that NL forum people are as helpful as 1TT folks. Button had J3o by the way, not that it matters. Doesn't make my crappy play any better.

"Bullying and chip lead are words you associate with tournament play, not ring games."

I think that's my main problem here. I have the mindset of a tournament player, and I find myself making some odd plays because of it. I built up my chip lead slowly but surely, playing only quality cards, w/ occasional bluffs here and there. Then when it became short-handed, I started becoming very aggressive and doing things like the hand in question (In the SNG's, I play tight throughout the first few levels, loosen up a bit during the mid stages, and become very aggressive when it's down to 3-4). I need to snap out of the SNG mindset.

One more thing I need to do is adjust to the stakes being played. He min-raised me on the flop, but .50 didn't seem like an awful big bet. I know, I know, I'll work on that.

By the way, WDbaker, what NL books would you recommend I read or reread to help my NL ring game. I have ToP, SS, LHFAP, LLHE -lee jones, don't really have any NL books other than super system.

[Wayfare]

Reubens and ciaffone pot limit and no limit poker. It is short (especially since the hold-em section is only like 25 pages), but many of those concepts are absolutely crucial to playing any stakes of NL/PL hold em.

Pot manipulation, stack size considerations, position issues, all found in depth there.

BTW this hand was horrible but glad to see you are taking other's criticism so well /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[NNH]

Wayfare, I'll be sure to check this one out. I have a ton to learn here, I'm sure all of you will be way more help than any book though. One of the main reasons I decided to start playing ring games was that I started realizing that all I really knew how to play well was SNG's, and that could only hurt my ring play. Which it obviously seems to have.

"BTW this hand was horrible"

Point well taken, but just one more thing. In my opinion his call w/ TP weak kicker is pretty horrible as well. I could be way off here though. Agree, disagree, and why? Thanks again.

[wdbaker]

"Reubens and Ciaffone pot limit and no limit poker" definately, I wish someone else would come out with a good one, I take that back, please don't anyone write any good NL books.

Other then that, All I can say is "stay tight and nutty", I think I'm going to register that as a trademark /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

P.S. Remember that it's not an SNG, when the table starts to get low move to a full one. Unless you just like the thrill of having to play in about 3 different modes as your population changes, stick to one and be the best you can be. You can always switch to the 6max if you feel the need to loosen up.

One Street at a Time
wdbaker Denver, Co