What to do here with pocket 9s?

[akira]

This was from a very loose live MTT: Blinds at 300/600, I had a a stack of about 4.5K, blinds go up to 500/1K in 5min. I get dealt 99 in the small blind. UTG raises 2K, and it is folded to me. UTG has about 10K of chips, BB has about 20K.

Should I push here, do a stop & go, or just fold? I figure my reraise of 2.5K is probably not enough to fold anyone, but I am also worried about the small blind calling. Any thoughts?

[Pat Southern]

I fold, I dont like tangling with an UTG raise. If I was going to play it, I think now might be a decent time for a stop and go.

[patrick dicaprio]

conventional wisdom is to push here i suppose but I have been trying to do a stop and go here more often with mixed results so far in a small sample.

Pat

[Potowame]

I just don't see the UTG raise as a raise that 99 beats enough to make a push here a good play. I would say you have a better chance of stealing the blinds on the next hand than winning this one. IMO But I am Tight.

[akira]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold, I dont like tangling with an UTG raise. If I was going to play it, I think now might be a decent time for a stop and go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point, I might consider folding this on a good table since the raise came from EP. However, this table was LOOSE, and there was no blind stealing going on since everyone limped or cold called raises. Also I was pretty shortstacked, and I hadn't gotten cards all night, so the pocket 9s were looking good at this point /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I decided to pull a stop & go at this point. The BB also ends up calling the 2K raise. Flop comes Qh Td Ts, and I push. Unfortunately BB calls me with a Q.

I was trying to evaluate whether a push would have been better since it might have folded the BB. What does everyone think about using a stop & go where you're not in the BB and there are still people left to act? (eg SB or earlier like this hand)

Thanks!

[soxfan70]

I dont like the stop & go here with the stack sizes you mentioned. the reason is if I'm the UTG raiser or the BB and I call the 2k raise with the stacks they have, I'm not folding for another 2.5K, especially from the SB. If you had a deeper stack, it might have been taken more seriously. I think it's either push or fold preflop, leaning more towards the push with your description of the table.

[SossMan]

The reason you would push w/ 99 is to get someone w/ KJ or KT or QTs to fold to the all in. Given your description of the players, I doubt that will be accomplised here. I would fold, and wait until I can value bet a better hand. You still have some time.

[JARID]

I think your stop and go with a mid pair looses effectiveness once the BB comes along. There is just too great a chance that overcards will hit one of the players and on a loose table I would expect them to call.

Your stack seems to small to be messing around with this anyway, I push or fold pre-flop. On a loose table where UTG raise does not = premium, I push.

-Jarid

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
I think your stop and go with a mid pair looses effectiveness once the BB comes along. There is just too great a chance that overcards will hit one of the players and on a loose table I would expect them to call.

Your stack seems to small to be messing around with this anyway, I push or fold pre-flop. On a loose table where UTG raise does not = premium, I push.

-Jarid

[/ QUOTE ]

an UTG non-premium range of raising hands would include:
KQ,KJ,KT,QJ,QT,AJ,AT,TJ.
All of these, in addition to premium hands, will call given the stack sizes. Thanks, but no thanks, I'll fold.

[Poker Junkie]

Pat,

Dumb newbie question here. Stop and Go? What is this? Can anyone provide me a link about this? If this has all ready been discussed ad-nauseum before, my apologies.

thanks,

/images/graemlins/diamond.gifWalt

[Pat Southern]

Its flat calling preflop from one of the blinds, with the intention of pushing allin on ANY flop.

[SossMan]

Search my username from about two months ago.

In short, it's when you flat call from the blinds when you have less than 10xBB (a normal push or fold situation). You then push on any flop in hopes of getting the preflop raiser to fold overcards. There are some situations where it can be an effective tool if used properly.

[JARID]

[ QUOTE ]
an UTG non-premium range of raising hands would include:
KQ,KJ,KT,QJ,QT,AJ,AT,TJ.
All of these, in addition to premium hands, will call given the stack sizes. Thanks, but no thanks, I'll fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd pass here huh? UTG could also have 88, 77. I see your point though. Your thought is that we have an entire orbit to wait for a better spot to pick up chips?

A few times I have busted out in the small blind and thought, "I could have been more patient there". I guess that seems like a big hand to pass up with a short stack.

-Jarid

[Poker Junkie]

thanks Pat and Soss for the info, will check it out

[Potowame]

[ QUOTE ]


I guess that seems like a big hand to pass up with a short stack.


[/ QUOTE ]


It looks like 22 to me with a UTG Raise.

[SossMan]

"UTG could also have 88, 77"

yes, he could, but not nearly as often as we would like.

[JARID]

[ QUOTE ]
It looks like 22 to me with a UTG Raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think I am uncovering a leak in my MTT game.

-Jarid