playing a set

[IgorSmiles]

When flopping a set in a no limit game (cash and tourny if you'd play them differently), what is the best way to play it when two suited cards are on board? Particularly when up against more than one opponent.

Thanks in advance for the opinions.

[tdomeski]

Position is important.

In tourney survival is most important. .you can't afford to bust yourself by checking.

Cash game, depends on postion, your image at the table, and the action pre flop. For the most part I bet out and get the money in as fast as possible.

[jslag]

Play it fast. Don't go for a check-raise unless you know your opponent(s) to be very aggressive or the type to steal pots in last position. A good opponent will often check the flop for a free card.

You must protect your hand, and betting out is the best way to do that. I usually make a near pot size bet and hope to get raised. If I take down a small pot right there on the flop, that's just fine by me.. better taking a small pot than losing a big one because I gave my opponent(s) a free card to out draw me with.

In a tournament environment, slow playing (e.g. a check-raise on the flop) may be a bit more correct as there is almost always one aggressive opponent trying to pick up the pot to accumulate chips. Still, in MOST situations it's better to play it fast in my opinion.

If you're in late position against deep money, I would usually just smooth call a pot sized bet. Especially against a single opponent. Let him/her make a 2nd best hand then push. Obviously, this works better on rainbow flops.

Always protect your hand.

[AncientPC]

Only time to slow play a flop is a rainbow, unconnected flop.

[fimbulwinter]

this is actually a much more complex question than it first appears.

obviously you want money in fast, but how to do that is a question that is dictated by stack sizes and opponent agression. I generally do what ciaffone reccomends:
if the stacks are deep, the pot small and there are few opponents, bet out. if there are many opponents, the stacks are shallow an the pot is larger (meaning someone is more likely to bet at it) then go for the check-raise.

One Caveat:
I wouldnt reccomend doing this on a board that is bod co-ordinated and has a twoflush. I'll overbet the pot hard every time there.

fim

[Losfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Only time to slow play a flop is a rainbow, unconnected flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if the flop is two tone and you know your opponent likes to play flush draws aggresively?

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only time to slow play a flop is a rainbow, unconnected flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if the flop is two tone and you know your opponent likes to play flush draws aggresively?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I know he bets his flush draws aggressively, then I'd check raise him. How much I checkraise depends on his stack and pot size, but my check raises are usually 2x whatever he bet at minimum.

Make him pay to see the turn / river, you can't get mad at him if he still catches his flush after calling with horrible odds.

[amoeba]

I just push when I get non-top set on 2 flush flop.

Most people don't play sets this way so it appears more like tp.

[IgorSmiles]

My experience lately is that most guys with a flush draw tend to call. So by betting strong I thin the field and chase out guys who are virtually drawing dead. Then the guy hits his flush often enough to having me talking to myself. My strategy has always been to bet out strong with a set if there are 2 suited cards or an obvious straight draw on board but I am wondering if that is the right play.

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
My experience lately is that most guys with a flush draw tend to call. So by betting strong I thin the field and chase out guys who are virtually drawing dead. Then the guy hits his flush often enough to having me talking to myself. My strategy has always been to bet out strong with a set if there are 2 suited cards or an obvious straight draw on board but I am wondering if that is the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just the "My AA's get cracked everytime but I don't take notice when they hold up" syndrome.

I need a shorter name for it.

[tripdad]

G.W.Bush doesn't have an evil bone in his body. His policies are obviously debateable, but he is a fine human being.

cheers!

[Ben]

I think a more fitting tatoo would have been 'stupid'.

But we digress...

[tripdad]

no matter how much we disagree with policies of politicians, one thing is certain...there was never a man elected to be president of the U.S. whose intellect was not above average. stupid people simply cannot win a national election. all geniuses...no, but stupid...not even close.

cheers!

[Ben]

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself,
but for predecessors as well."

"The California crunch really is the result of not enough power-generating plants and then not enough power to power the power of generating plants."

http://www.bushisms.com/NewQuotes.html

The man is INFAMOUS for not being able to speak his native language correctly. I call that a lack of intellect.

The idea is certainly debatable, but I just can't even garner up a shred of respect for someone so consistently tongue-tied and poorly-spoken.

-Ben

[ChipLeader]

Ive actually been trying to figure out the best way to play against a flush draw as well. The best way ive found in cash games to play it, when Im first to act, is to either push right there ( many will call with top pair thinking youre pushing flush chasers) or to bet the pot on the flop. By betting the pot, chasers get decent odds to chase the flush, and you havent put enough in to feel commited to the hand. When the turn is a miss, ill bet very strong. Now instead of having two cards to come, they only have one, and the pot is fluffed. Since the turn will pair or miss flush most of the time, and you will let go if the flush card hits the turn, you will win more fluffed pots and since many people will call all in with a flush draw (especially if they have 1-2 overcards with it), its better to get your money in on the turn because they will only have 1 chance to hit, where they had 2 on the flop. Respond if you can find anything wrong wiht my logic, buts it seems most consistent to me.

[tripdad]

trust me on this Ben. the tongue-tiedness is simply a product of growing up in Texas, as i did. a) folks don't talk as much or as quickly. b) if he talked "Texan" you wouldn't understand everything, so he tries to adapt and speak so people in the midwest and east coast and west coast understand him. obviously, he doesn't always succeed.

i have the same exact problem (now in Midwest), even though my IQ is a respectable 131.

try going to Texas and speak your native tongue. you will get some mighty odd looks, i guarantee.

cheers!

[amoeba]

[ QUOTE ]
Ive actually been trying to figure out the best way to play against a flush draw as well. The best way ive found in cash games to play it, when Im first to act, is to either push right there ( many will call with top pair thinking youre pushing flush chasers) or to bet the pot on the flop. By betting the pot, chasers get decent odds to chase the flush, and you havent put enough in to feel commited to the hand. When the turn is a miss, ill bet very strong. Now instead of having two cards to come, they only have one, and the pot is fluffed. Since the turn will pair or miss flush most of the time, and you will let go if the flush card hits the turn, you will win more fluffed pots and since many people will call all in with a flush draw (especially if they have 1-2 overcards with it), its better to get your money in on the turn because they will only have 1 chance to hit, where they had 2 on the flop. Respond if you can find anything wrong wiht my logic, buts it seems most consistent to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your logic is correct. However, the question is do you let go on the turn when the flush hits? Lets say you make a pot sized bet on the flop. you get 1 caller. How do you know that caller is on a flush draw or has top pair good kicker?

[ChipLeader]

This would obviously depend on a lot of things (as everythig in poker does). I would rely on a read on the player, and generally, someone with a low flush will bet out enough to prevent you from catching a 4th of the flush suit and having him outflushed. If he has a high flush, he will generally bet small as a trap or check. If hes giving me proper odds, ill call and hope for board pair. If hes a bluffer and makes a suspiciously large bet, ill call or push. If i respect him, ill fold. Either way, if i act first my only option is to tester bet small or check.

[jslag]

[ QUOTE ]
G.W.Bush doesn't have an evil bone in his body. His policies are obviously debateable, but he is a fine human being.

[/ QUOTE ]

"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." - Mae West

[Zim]

Nice title, huh?

OK, so its a flush draw and we have 9 outs.

You`ve got a set, 7 outs to improve it.

I`m a newbie, but isn`t the fear of making a flush a little exaggerated here?

You`re *almost* as likely to hit a full house or quads as your opponent is to make the flush.

I`d say slow play.

But that`s probably really bad advice.

Best,
Zim