This is why I am a mess. Anyone play this differant?

[radek2166]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

[mmbt0ne]

He bet into you after you raised pre-flop, then a stop-and-go on the turn. Small pot, and you can't beat anything he has if he's as strong as advertised. I probably just lay it down here. Up until that point though I play it the same way.

[flair1239]

My opinion:

1. Flop is very good, I like the raise.
2. Yeah, this sucks. Another overcard... he could be semi-bluffing again. But not much you can do about it. I may be mieinterpreting the "Defending against semi-bluffs" section of TOP, but I think you should fold here. The pot is relatively small and I don't think you lose much by folding.

[sluttysteve]

Fold this baby on the turn.

[radek2166]

The read on this guy is hes seeing 70% of flops. Rasiseing anything post flop. hes a monay to quote Rob.

[Fiddler]

I would fold on the turn. Not sure if it is correct though.

[Quercus]

I fold the turn. I just don't believe I've got the best hand often enough to justify a call down with this size pot.

[radek2166]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.75.
UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, Hero folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 (poster) folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">BB <font color="purple">(I am a monkey)</font> 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
I am a monkey checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, I am a monkey calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
I am a monkey checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">I am a monkey raises</font>, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, I am a monkey calls, UTG calls.

River: (16 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
I am a monkey checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">I am a monkey raises</font>, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">I am a monkey caps</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 28 BB

<font color="purple">
I am a monkey has Td 9d (two pair, tens and nines).
UTG has As Qd (one pair, queens).
UTG+1 has Qh Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 28 BB. </font>

[Quercus]

Obviously, monkey has read SSH.

He knows not to let big pots go, so he's making big pots.

[radek2166]

Is that sarcasim?

[Quercus]

Er, more an attempt at wry semi-ironic humor.

I'll not give up my day job just yet though.

[GrunchCan]

Your turn call is borderline. In these situations, I'm 85% certian that the opponenet has TPGK or better. If the pot were bigger, you might play. Since the pot is medium-small, I favor a fold.

Good play except for the turn call. Since you called the turn, folding the river for 1 bet would be a mistake.

[frank_iii]

I think I might play it the same way if I had the same read on the opponent. He could have been betting with a pair of nines since he didn't 3-bet the flop. He could have picked up a flush draw on the turn which might justify his bet.

Based on your tone, I assume you lost the hand, though...

[Entity]

It always feels crappy to let monkeys win pots, Steve, but it's better to let them win pots than to let them win more money. You can safely fold this turn, I think. The pot is small and you'll find better situations to win much more money off of him. Just be selective. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rob

[radek2166]

Thanks for the part about my tone. Its more a party thing than anything else. Place drives me nuts. I wll post the results later.

[Surfbullet]

I would fold this turn.

Surf

[sexypanda]

I first was going to tell you to fold the turn. After you raised the flop, he still bet the turn, which indicates a hand that can beat yours. After seeing the "I am a monkey" post and assuming you were playing against the monkey, I would have played it exactly the same. You might have lost this one, and hopefully next time you flop a monster, you can take your money back plus a little extra for fun.

[droolie]

I play this the same way (and it hurts when I lose). Heads up against a monkey you have to play this hand all the way through. Letting him eat your lunch costs more than a call down to the river. Win, lose or draw he'll be less likely to try a power play on you in the future.
If the pot is multiway and the action is heavy I'm dropping when the A hits the turn.

[Nate tha' Great]

Against a somewhat loose player, I might just call on the flop, not wanting to lose more money if behind and not wanting to discourage him from bluffing at an unthreatening flop if he doesn't have much of a hand. Against a very loose player who almost always sees a showdown, you probably have a raise for value on the flop.

He's doing you a favor by betting into you again on the turn when an ace comes. That card ought to scare him since you were the preflop raiser; instead he's betting into you again (to put a finer point on it, it's not the stop-and-go that should scare you per se but the fact that he's stopping-and-going when particularly an ace came). You probably have a fold at that point.

[radek2166]

The thing is I caome out betting. The guys seeing 80% of the flops. I fold to 1 bet and hes going to try to bluff me forever and a day.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing is I caome out betting. The guys seeing 80% of the flops. I fold to 1 bet and hes going to try to bluff me forever and a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's probably not paying that much attention.

And it's not clear that his making a lot of dumb bluffs at you is a bad thing.

[radek2166]

Dude if I could find the HH i will show u more of the chit he was showing down.

[radek2166]

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

<font color="purple">
Hero has Jc Jh (two pair, jacks and threes).
BB has 9s 6c (two pair, nines and threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.25 BB. </font>

[Kopefire]

Would it be woth it to raise on the turn? If he's semi-bluffing he might not bet into the river . . . which then gives you a bit better pot odds at the river if you still want to play it, and also gives you more info as to where you are at.

Of course, if he then bets at the river I'd fold . . .

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude if I could find the HH i will show u more of the chit he was showing down.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the opponent is so loose that you have to call down with third pair, then by all means call down. There are a lot of opponents in the 6-max game I play for example against whom I would show down this hand 95% of the time or more if the action became heads up before the flop. In this case, you call down BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT YOU HAVE FAVORABLE ODDS TO DO SO. That is absolutely fine.

What I was reacting to was your comment that you wanted to call down to avoid encouraging your opponent from bluffing at you, which implied that you expected to LOSE MONEY by calling down, but were going to do so anyway for the sake of future hands. I think that the impact on future hands is a very trivial consideration in this game and should almost never justify your making an otherwise bad calldown. See also my post in the "Texas Hold 'Em" forum.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Would it be woth it to raise on the turn? If he's semi-bluffing he might not bet into the river . . . which then gives you a bit better pot odds at the river if you still want to play it, and also gives you more info as to where you are at.

Of course, if he then bets at the river I'd fold . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising the turn and probably taking a free showdown would be a good play against specifically an opponent who was capable of folding a Q. Radek's opponent seems like a complete donkey and I don't think it's advisable here.

[radek2166]

In this situation. I figured it was the right move. I am honestly not a fan of calling down. Thats very passive to me.

Unfourtunatly in the party poker microcosim I strugle with people like this guy getting a piece of the flop and playing it all the way to the end. Hitting their 2 outer on the river.

Im just trying to maximize my winnngs and minimize my losses. Sorta like the game im in right now. I raise preflop form the button. Get beat by a guy play 106o.

So I want to win the max win I have a made hand and lose the lest when I have a resonable hand.

[Quercus]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfourtunatly in the party poker microcosim I strugle with people like this guy getting a piece of the flop and playing it all the way to the end. Hitting their 2 outer on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

These sorts of players often play post flop the same whether they just caught a piece or whether the flop jumped off their screen and broke their damn nose with the stone cold nuts. Very +EV, if occasionally frustrating to watch.