The silence of the Daliman (long)

[Daliman]

I used to post in this forum all the time. I used to play 100-150 $200+15 Sng's a week, averaging almost $35 per tourney without even using selective tabling. I had made 52k in 4 months of SNG's and another 40k in 5/10 NL cash games in under 100 hours of play (with limited forays into 10-25 and 25/50) and was estimating my 2004 poker income at about 250k only playing 25 hours a week. Given the fact that I recently quit my job after my wife went back to work following this birth of our son(she always made more at her job than I did as a tire salesman/DJ.), being able to play poker, make great money, and watch my son during the day was like a dream come true.

In my life, I have had many instances where it seemed like somthing would go well for me, only to have it fall to pieces. I was resigned to the fact that I was cursed. I'm alot smarter than most people, yet my intelligence early on caused me to be lazy in school, as I didn't need to study as much as other kids did in school. As time went on, I realized that yes, I've had bad luck, but my work ethic didn't do anything to tip the scales further in my favor. Now, however, I felt I was finally over that hill. Poker was great, my son was great, my wife was great, we were buying a beautiful new home.

It was a friday night, and I was playing 25-50 NL on UB for the first time. When you are doing well at poker, money starts to lose it's meaning, and i figured if I happened to dump 5-7k, no big deal, i had 20K+ more online. My dreams of buying a 2005 Mini Cooper and paying cash were in reach. I started off down about 6k down after about 4 hours HU vs a player I felt I could beat, and when he left, I was going to leave too, but a MAJOR leak of my game reared its head; I HATE leaving a table down. THe only Problem is the 2 players who sat with me were Thomas Keller and Prahlad friedman, two of the top NL players on UB. As it turned out, I ended up +2800 for the session, winning a 11K pot off Keller in the process.
My next opportunity to play was sunday. I started off somewhat down, but improved after about 4 hours to having ~11k on the table from a 8500 total buyin. With so much money on the line, you'd think I'd pay pretty close attention, especially with Freddy Deeb, Bobby Hoff, and Erick lindgren in the game 7 handed, but I was playing 2 other games AND IN'ing with a friend. Because of this distraction, i ended up making a terrible mistake in a hand vs Bobby Hoff and losing a 17k pot. Everything fell apart from there, and my worst day ever inflated from -4200 to -14k.
I was angry at myself for making an $8200 mistake, but figured it was merely a speed bump for me. The following day, I dropped $3800 playing 30/60 4 handed, most of it to a guy who was consistantly calling 3 bets cold preflop from the SB with hands like 67o and 97s, never folding ace or even king high. I lost another 3k the nest day in the same game. I figured, " no problem, I'll just go back to 5/10 NL", where I was winning at a $440 per hour clip with VERY few drops; I lost 6K total in them before the week was done.

By the time the week was over, I'd dropped 26k, and now had an online equity of less than 3k.

I went into a deep depression. The enormity of what I had just lost hit me, and I was only interested in how to get it back quickest. It seemed to me that playing tons of SNG's was "only" going to get me back 3-5K a week, and I was having a bad run there anyways, so I went back to NL.
I was consistently bouncing between online equity of 3-8k when i hit a wall. Not only did I have no money left, I now owed over 2k to a friend online.
This downswng started back in July, and continues through today. I have bounced between NL, SNG's, and 10/20-15/30 games since then, and I truly feel every part of my game has gone in the crapper except for my SNG game, which I feel has never been better. Inexplicably, however, I was down ~5k for my previous 600 $200+15 SNG's, even though my worst previous 100 SNG block was -$900, and had NEVER had a losing 100 block otherwise(an aberration, i know). I was losing more than my fair share of allins is pretty much what it comes down to, which is part of poker, but now my BR was not big enough to weather the storm. I ended up dropping to the $30 SNG level, which was very humbling for me, Mr. ""I've played 100 $200+15 sng's in a day off 4k", but I figured even if i can just make $10 per, that's still about $50 per hour, so after a month of play, id have 5-8k. Good money, and definitely enough to live off of, even IF my sensibilities towards money have been severely warped.

Well, i played about 40 of these, was actually winning about $17 per, but of course, it's not good enough for me, so i go up to the $50 level, go on a bad run, and summarily lose the $600 I had built up.
I got a couple of friends to loan me $2500 last week, which, along with ~ $900 i got from my affiliate pay, I rolled it up to $5000 in one day, then dropped it 3k playing 15-30 when I didn't think i had enough time to play SNG's I sent the 2k back to one friend after getting back to 4k, got in a fight with my wife on sunday, and since the $200+15's were taking too long to get going that afternnon, i played 4x 10/20 tables, and lost it all.
Now I'm back to scraping for a BR, I'll probably start back off at $50 level.
Part of the reason I wrote this is to let people know where i've been lately; I've seen a few posts wondering where ive gone, and I get a fair amount of people who watch me play online due to my posts here, I guess. Another part is as a cautionary tale.... If you're doing well, keep doing what got you there. Don't let the money warp your sensibilities or your opinion of your own game. I had no business putting more than 5k in that 25/50 game, ESPECIALLY when i'm multitabling.
I guess the final reason is just this is cathartic for me. Maybe by writing this rambling, whiny post it'll help hammer into my head what i should already know; STICK TO SNG'S! I doubt it though, i'm pretty stubborn

[durron597]

Wow. That really sucks sir. I take some small comfort in that I've been having a terrible run of luck in SnGs after an amazing start (the best hand never does hold up, does it?). But you're one of the posters I respect the most on this forum, despite the fact that I started getting really active at about the time you stopped posting.

I wish you well sir, and hope you get back to your A game soon!

[Cry Me A River]

Whoa, dude! I'm thinking a vacation (not Vegas or any other casinos!) would be a very +ev move for you right about now!

[La Brujita]

The only thing I can say is keep your head up. I know you are a very good player and will make it back again.

It may be very cold comfort but in many of the poker books the top players in the world talk about how close they came to hitting the rail.

[AJo Go All In]

what are the screen names of keller, deeb, hoff

[eastbay]

Wow. Cautionary tale if I have ever heard one. That is a pretty horrifying story.

Take it slow as you come back. Stick with your strengths. Never let your guard down.

eastbay

[chill888]

At least you have one valuable asset - the ability to play good poker.

I have a friend with a net worth in the millions that plays primarily $50 and $100 S&Gs and is a winning grinder. The money doesn't mean much but he really wants to win and only plays if he believes he has the best of it.

Winning is everything to him. And he isn't convinced that he can consitently beat higher limits yet so he is learning and trying to improve and will only move up when he believes he has the edge.

[bugstud]

yeah. 25/50 there is roooough

I did something similar in the 80 on UB, though I recognized what was happening and forced myself to cashout before I completely obliterated myself.

Good luck on rebuilding a roll, sir. It took me a stake and about 2 months to do it, I hope it takes you less.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]

I guess the final reason is just this is cathartic for me. Maybe by writing this rambling, whiny post it'll help hammer into my head what i should already know; STICK TO SNG'S! I doubt it though, i'm pretty stubborn

[/ QUOTE ]

The main lesson here is watch your bankroll requirements, at every level you played during this post you were playing above the level you should be. It was sad to read of the decline of a good player like yourself but I think a lot of it is your own doing, as you said.

I think I remember way back you stating that you started 200+15 SNGs off a tiny bankroll, and just tore them up. Thats great and we were all happy for you doing so well but there was a large element in luck in not busting out, for anyone's skill level. This seems to be a pattern you kept with, and eventually I feel you were going to get yourself in trouble. Bankroll requirements are not to be underestimated IMO, not only the chance of busting but psychological damage of losing huge chunks and ultimately having to drop down again.

Good luck in the future, hope to see you back on top in no time.

[eastbay]

I don't post this in spite or to be hurtful or smug. But I think it makes sense to have folks (some more than others in the original thread) recognize that there were warning signs here that should have been considered more carefully:

http://tinyurl.com/5ytzv

If you are playing with serious money, do it seriously: the statistics don't lie. Even the greatest of players need to respect bankroll requirements.

eastbay

[willie]

ooof.....may i always keep my 10+1 losses in perspective.


good god.

[Daliman]

yeah, I rememember that one, lol.

Thanks for all the kind words of support to everyone.

As it was, i was plenty capitalized at the time for every game i was playing except my couple forays into 80-160 and 25/50 NL. I figure 30 buyins is a fairly safe # for SNg's(IF i concentrate on those, not playing 3 other games while 4 tabling...)and the standard 300BB's mean 18k for 30-60, so i was fine there too. NL, I dont know what the BR requirements should be, but I'm guessing around 1500x the big blind, and more for high limit games. It's been said that to properly and consistently play in the 25/50 on UB, you need a half million dollars, which i think is excessive(unless you suck), i would think 250K would be plenty for a winning player, but what do i know..

P.S. As far as names, some are rumors, some are fact, but here's what i know
GummyBear-Thomas Keller
Kid55-Freddy Deeb
Mr Belvedere- Erick Lindgren
DaWiz- Bobby Hoff

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to post in this forum all the time. I used to play 100-150 $200+15 Sng's a week, averaging almost $35 per tourney without even using selective tabling. I had made 52k in 4 months of SNG's and another 40k in 5/10 NL cash games in under 100 hours of play (with limited forays into 10-25 and 25/50) and was estimating my 2004 poker income at about 250k only playing 25 hours a week. Given the fact that I recently quit my job after my wife went back to work following this birth of our son(she always made more at her job than I did as a tire salesman/DJ.), being able to play poker, make great money, and watch my son during the day was like a dream come true.

In my life, I have had many instances where it seemed like somthing would go well for me, only to have it fall to pieces. I was resigned to the fact that I was cursed. I'm alot smarter than most people, yet my intelligence early on caused me to be lazy in school, as I didn't need to study as much as other kids did in school. As time went on, I realized that yes, I've had bad luck, but my work ethic didn't do anything to tip the scales further in my favor. Now, however, I felt I was finally over that hill. Poker was great, my son was great, my wife was great, we were buying a beautiful new home.

It was a friday night, and I was playing 25-50 NL on UB for the first time. When you are doing well at poker, money starts to lose it's meaning, and i figured if I happened to dump 5-7k, no big deal, i had 20K+ more online. My dreams of buying a 2005 Mini Cooper and paying cash were in reach. I started off down about 6k down after about 4 hours HU vs a player I felt I could beat, and when he left, I was going to leave too, but a MAJOR leak of my game reared its head; I HATE leaving a table down. THe only Problem is the 2 players who sat with me were Thomas Keller and Prahlad friedman, two of the top NL players on UB. As it turned out, I ended up +2800 for the session, winning a 11K pot off Keller in the process.
My next opportunity to play was sunday. I started off somewhat down, but improved after about 4 hours to having ~11k on the table from a 8500 total buyin. With so much money on the line, you'd think I'd pay pretty close attention, especially with Freddy Deeb, Bobby Hoff, and Erick lindgren in the game 7 handed, but I was playing 2 other games AND IN'ing with a friend. Because of this distraction, i ended up making a terrible mistake in a hand vs Bobby Hoff and losing a 17k pot. Everything fell apart from there, and my worst day ever inflated from -4200 to -14k.
I was angry at myself for making an $8200 mistake, but figured it was merely a speed bump for me. The following day, I dropped $3800 playing 30/60 4 handed, most of it to a guy who was consistantly calling 3 bets cold preflop from the SB with hands like 67o and 97s, never folding ace or even king high. I lost another 3k the nest day in the same game. I figured, " no problem, I'll just go back to 5/10 NL", where I was winning at a $440 per hour clip with VERY few drops; I lost 6K total in them before the week was done.

By the time the week was over, I'd dropped 26k, and now had an online equity of less than 3k.

I went into a deep depression. The enormity of what I had just lost hit me, and I was only interested in how to get it back quickest. It seemed to me that playing tons of SNG's was "only" going to get me back 3-5K a week, and I was having a bad run there anyways, so I went back to NL.
I was consistently bouncing between online equity of 3-8k when i hit a wall. Not only did I have no money left, I now owed over 2k to a friend online.
This downswng started back in July, and continues through today. I have bounced between NL, SNG's, and 10/20-15/30 games since then, and I truly feel every part of my game has gone in the crapper except for my SNG game, which I feel has never been better. Inexplicably, however, I was down ~5k for my previous 600 $200+15 SNG's, even though my worst previous 100 SNG block was -$900, and had NEVER had a losing 100 block otherwise(an aberration, i know). I was losing more than my fair share of allins is pretty much what it comes down to, which is part of poker, but now my BR was not big enough to weather the storm. I ended up dropping to the $30 SNG level, which was very humbling for me, Mr. ""I've played 100 $200+15 sng's in a day off 4k", but I figured even if i can just make $10 per, that's still about $50 per hour, so after a month of play, id have 5-8k. Good money, and definitely enough to live off of, even IF my sensibilities towards money have been severely warped.

Well, i played about 40 of these, was actually winning about $17 per, but of course, it's not good enough for me, so i go up to the $50 level, go on a bad run, and summarily lose the $600 I had built up.
I got a couple of friends to loan me $2500 last week, which, along with ~ $900 i got from my affiliate pay, I rolled it up to $5000 in one day, then dropped it 3k playing 15-30 when I didn't think i had enough time to play SNG's I sent the 2k back to one friend after getting back to 4k, got in a fight with my wife on sunday, and since the $200+15's were taking too long to get going that afternnon, i played 4x 10/20 tables, and lost it all.
Now I'm back to scraping for a BR, I'll probably start back off at $50 level.
Part of the reason I wrote this is to let people know where i've been lately; I've seen a few posts wondering where ive gone, and I get a fair amount of people who watch me play online due to my posts here, I guess. Another part is as a cautionary tale.... If you're doing well, keep doing what got you there. Don't let the money warp your sensibilities or your opinion of your own game. I had no business putting more than 5k in that 25/50 game, ESPECIALLY when i'm multitabling.
I guess the final reason is just this is cathartic for me. Maybe by writing this rambling, whiny post it'll help hammer into my head what i should already know; STICK TO SNG'S! I doubt it though, i'm pretty stubborn

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW!

[CrisBrown]

Hi Daliman,

I've always respected you, and after this post I respect you even more.

I went through a somewhat similar situation this past spring. I'd built my bankroll up to $5K playing SNGs, but hit a small skid, was frustrated with SNG play, and decided to switch to ring games ($2/4 and $3/5) for a while, for a change of pace. I did very, very well ($10K in a month, at only 15-20 hrs/wk), and all looked rosy. I made a couple of large withdrawals to pay bills, but I figured I'd get it back with no problem.

Oops.

I'd withdrawn enough that I was underfunded. Couple that with the inevitable swings of poker, and the next thing I knew, my bankroll was all but gone. I withdrew the rest, again to pay some bills, and forced myself to take a summer break. As I said in a previous post, I had my kids at home all summer anyway, so it would have been very difficult to concentrate regardless.

Like you, Daliman, my biggest leak is that I hate to leave a table when I'm losing. Some days, it just ain't there to win. Either the opponents are better than you, or they're playing better that day, or you're playing worse than your usual game, or maybe the cards are just dead. Regardless, the longer I sit there, the worse things get.

I've just recently started playing again, after rereading my core resources (I've listed them elsewhere), and going back to the basics. It's a humbling but, I think, a very necessary experience for any serious player.

I once asked Phil Hellmuth how to cope with "delusions of competence." His reply startled me, given what I see of him on televised poker events. He said: "I do two things. First, I try not to believe I'm all that good. Second, I try to remember I am very blessed, with good health, a good family, and a lot of other things outside of poker."

I think he was sincere, although obviously he has trouble remembering these things in the heat of the action. I've tried to take his advice to heart, an of course I also have trouble remembering it in the heat of the action. That's hardly an uncommon occurrence in the human species.

I guess what I'm saying in all of this, Daliman, is that you are a very talented player. Yes, you made mistakes, and you appear to be trying to learn from them. Don't let those mistakes wipe away your awareness of all of the other blessings in your life: a good family, etc.

It has been said that the measure of a person is not how often he/she is knocked down, but how often he/she gets up. You've gotten back up. That, and your willingness to share your pain here, says a lot about you ... and all of it good.

Cris

[byronkincaid]

553 posts and you're still playing $5s.

WOW!

[ThaSaltCracka]

good post Cris.
Daliman, I have never played poker at the levels you play at, nor do I know what its like to win or lose that much money, but based upon what you wrote, two things seem aparent to me. One, you seem stressed (for good reason) and two you seem to be playing franticly. You need to slow down a bit, maybe even take a day or two off or limit the amount you play. Then once you have things under control, slowly ease back into what you were doing.

I hope you turn in around man!

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
553 posts and you're still playing $5s.

WOW!

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't play alot of SNGs. i have a life outside of poker.
i've played probably at least 350 or more but it's spread out over a period of about 10 months. that's why a bad run for me in the short-term keeps me at the $5 level until i'm confident i can win consistently once i move up. i'm not habitually into transferring money after money over from Neteller when my BR gets low. if i'm doing bad, then i deal with it. for now, i focus on micro-limit ring game play to get reps in with an occasional SNG and read poker books and 2+2. your post is oozing with support.

[durron597]

Your BR would be a lot healthier if you didn't have the rake from $5s cutting into your winnings.

Unless you are playing on Stars, in which case I should shut my mouth /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[LinusKS]

If you made 52k in less than 100 hours of play, that's $520/hour. If you were playing 8 sng's per hour, you need to make it $65/game, not $35.

Did that 100 hours of play include the $40,000 you won at ring games, as well as the $52,000 at sngs?

[Jason Strasser]

Daliman,

This really hurt to read.

I suggest that you find a game, whether it is sngs/nl or limit ring, and stick with it. Force yourself not to move up or down until you actually have a bankroll for the next level.

Also, uninstall UB if you are the type of person that can't help 'testing' out the 25/50 NL tables.

Gluck,
-Jason

[Daliman]

the 52 k was in ~1500 SNG's. The >100 hours referred only to my NL cash winnings.

[Eder]

Daliman...
In the big scheme of things money comes and goes... but your wife and kid are irreplacable and you still have them...so you are still a winner in life, and you really haven't lost that much...

[eMarkM]

They should rename that 50/25 NL table "Dream Killer", because you are not the only who took a hard earned bankroll into that viper's pit and came away nearly empty handed. I can't say I have the greatest sympathy for you because you really should have known better. But there's no need for any lecture on that. I did the same early on in my poker playing, pushing myself into Paradise's 20/40 too quickly when I first started and was winning steadily, only to crash back down to 2/4 again when that game crushed me and my roll. You've shown a lot of courage posting this, I'll give you that. And I'm sure you'll work your way back up. But you should vow never to play at that UB table again until you had a solid six figure roll.

[SmileyEH]

Maybe its because your opponents keep outdrawing your "superior" hands four times out of ten that is really killing you.

-SmileyEH

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe its because your opponents keep outdrawing your "superior" hands four times out of ten that is really killing you.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

if you mean outdrawing by making a straight or a flush, then no. the biggest loss i sustained on a made draw was when i reraised with A A against some LAG guy who was holding Q J-suited who called and the flop hit Q A K giving me trips (he had a pair of Queens, a straight draw, and a royal flush draw as the Ace and King were of his suit). he went all-in, i naturally had to call because i had him covered. true to form, a 10 falls on the turn and he wins a huge pot. i think i went out in 4th in the SNG, out of the money. most of my losses to inferior hands have come on the river. i lose the most chips (pots) on the river (either to a last minute catch which beats my hand or i have to laydown after having wasted chips on an outdraw) or by getting knocked out altogether in the SNG, usually around 4th-6th. these rivers and losses to inferior hands also happen ITM giving me an unbalanced amount of 2nds and 3rds which affect ROI. have that happen too many times over a short period of time and your ITM finishes cannot compensate for buy-ins you lose by not making it to these same beats. we all know it's poker, but that statement never makes it better.

[ThorGoT]

Daliman: Thank you very much for this post. I had delusions of grandeur on the basis of one week's winnings and I would like to think that this might serve as a valuable warning if that one week were to somehow become a few months. One question -- don't answer if too personal, of course, but I couldn't tell if this was a deliberate omission or not. What were your total losses during this period? It seems like you might still have been up overall even after all this.

[Daliman]

ya, still well up overall, but most of the up $$ is gone, paying bills and down payment on a new home. Cumulative losses for the period are ~33k.

[Reverend]

Just to add to the list: Fúcking well done for coming out and posting as you did, shows a hell of a lot of character.

[Blarg]

Thanks for the very interesting story. It certainly serves as a warning to others. And it took a lot of guts to post it. Doing so shows you're on an important upswing already. Hopefully you'll just let nature take its course and not try to force it. Funny how winning poker is about aligning yourself with the probabilities, yet it can lead so many profitable players to do improbable things.

[AA suited]

wow..that puts my losing streak in perspective.

I started with $800 for this month playing 30+3 sng's. went down to $600 and switched to $20+2. I'm down to $100 right now /images/graemlins/frown.gif and was going to xfer some $ from my netteller acct to party. (i'm still up $2000 overall.)

but after reading Daliman's post, i think i'll take a break instead.

this could also be a conspiracy. let us have a good winning streak so we keep coming back. once we're hooked, program the software to make us lose to new comers to have them hooked. (look ma, i won all this $ without even trying.) rince and repeat.

[Frozen]

Daliman, this is a mistake worthy of OnlineChamp.
Crushing party sng's does not mean you have a shot at the 80-160 games, or certainly not 25-50 NL vs. top pros for god's sake!

25% of my game is GAME SELECTION. Notice how I always duck out of any sng pre-start if I see one or two rocks sit down
at my table. You're a talented grinder, but not a world champion! A talented grinder who I can see making a cool 1/4 mil per year (tax free if u know how to do it) if you just stick to grinding it out on the sng's. How do I know? Because I am the exact same thing.

~Frozen

[Daliman]

Actually, I did fine in the 80-160 I played. The 30-60 SH is what hurt, along with the 25/50 NL, which i actually only LOST ~6k in. Not that 6k is nothing, but it's nothing in that game for 20+ hours of SH and HU play with the likes of Deeb, Keller, Hoff, Friedman, and Lindgren. Actually, if not for ONE pot i made a huge error in,(and still could have gotten lucky and hit a 16%er for a win or tie), I'd have made money in there. But yes, I am back to grinding.
F LImit poker. I know longer know how to play it.

[RYL]

Thank you for this post. I originally started with $100 and went to $1000 in a week 4-tabling $0.25/$0.50 NLHE 50 Max. After getting a $1000, I got cocky and decided to move up, 4-tabling $0.50/$1.00 NLHE 100 Max. I got my account up to $1600 before losing it all in a week and a half. This post teaches everyone a great lesson on how important your bankroll is in relation to the game you play. I'm now going to move up once I have enough for 20 buy-ins. Once again I thank you for this post.

[Bigwig]

Daliman -- you've no clue who I am, but I would appreciate it if you would answer my question. How long have you been playing, and what experience did you have before you went on your SNG run?

I ask because I'm currently self-employed, but dislike my job. I do just fine, but would actually like to get my game to the point where I become an SNG pro. At my current win rate on the $30 tables, I could make half of my average income full-time right now. So I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that after learning and improving more, that I could make the jump when I am able to do the same at $100's (could take a while, I know). I'm just curious about your time frame, and how long it took.

Thanks.

[ammbo]

Daliman, I frequent another board and only lurk here, so I apologize if this seems out of left field. Your cautionary tale is exactly the medicine I need right now. My bankroll jumped exponentially recently, and my first impulse was to jump into higher games. However, your tale has given me the proper perspective on playing within one's limits.

I play a lot of NL ring and SnGs as well. My first foray into $200 SnGs was considerably more disastrous than yours. I shaved off half of my $4000 bankroll in one evening after being emboldened by a single win. Playing beyond my limits is a mistake I do not plan to repeat, and I doubt it is one you will repeat either.

I might recommend a stop-loss for NL games. I find that in a NL ring, losing a few buyins can affect me enough to play just below my par game. I leave any table after losing two buy ins now. (I don't like the idea of a stop-loss, but it works for me.)

Discipline is the most difficult aspect of poker to learn. You learned this the hard way. I only hope that your story is how the rest of us to learn.

[ZeeJustin]

It's so easy to share success stories, but so much easier to learn from someone's mistakes. Thanks a lot for sharing this.

[AtlBrvs4Life]

Daliman, I am sorry to hear that things aren't going well for you right now. Your posts were invaluable to my SNG game when you used to post more in the SNG forum. I am certain you will be able to recover from this downswing and be back soon.

Out of curiosity, I was wondering if you could post the hand where you made the huge mistake that cost you ~17k? Not a big deal if you can't.

[silversurfer]

Thanks for the post. Like many others here, I am an aspiring SnG semi-pro wanna-be who respects your posts.

As reinforcement to what everyone else has said...please stick with what you know. I'm envious of the ability to be a high-limit SnG grinder like yourself (and depending on the state of online poker, may one day be). Don't tilt off your winnings after the tremendous year you have apparently had.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Daliman -- you've no clue who I am, but I would appreciate it if you would answer my question. How long have you been playing, and what experience did you have before you went on your SNG run?

I ask because I'm currently self-employed, but dislike my job. I do just fine, but would actually like to get my game to the point where I become an SNG pro. At my current win rate on the $30 tables, I could make half of my average income full-time right now. So I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that after learning and improving more, that I could make the jump when I am able to do the same at $100's (could take a while, I know). I'm just curious about your time frame, and how long it took.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been playing poker seriously for about 5 years, professionally for last 18 months. Before i went on my SNG run, i'd played about 60-70 SNG's at varying levels, but i have MILLIONS of hands played previous to this foray. My time frame was essentialy as soon as I started playing these consistantly, as i had previous thought them to be hard to win in. I study alot of hands, and have every single book ever written on poker, it seems. But the short of it is that In february i had about 1200 o party and started playing 2 to 3 tables of $100's at a time, won about 1800 in a week, then started 4 tabling $200's like crazy and never looking back. i'd have moderate drawdowns here and there, but rarely one that exceeded 100 tourneys until the big hit. Near as I can call, take 11 full %off yer RoI for every level you play above your standard level, starting at $30 as base, so is yer $30 base ROI is 45%, figure 34% at 50 level, 23% at $100 level, and 12% at $200 level. Also expect tjhe swings to be probably 20% bigger ech level yo ugo up, and 50% bigger at $200 level.

Sorry is this all seems a mess, as my sonata i tokk 35 miniutesago is really starting to kick in... /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Daliman]

I have it on another comp. I'll post when I'm on it.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Daliman -- you've no clue who I am, but I would appreciate it if you would answer my question. How long have you been playing, and what experience did you have before you went on your SNG run?

I ask because I'm currently self-employed, but dislike my job. I do just fine, but would actually like to get my game to the point where I become an SNG pro. At my current win rate on the $30 tables, I could make half of my average income full-time right now. So I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that after learning and improving more, that I could make the jump when I am able to do the same at $100's (could take a while, I know). I'm just curious about your time frame, and how long it took.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been playing poker seriously for about 5 years, professionally for last 18 months. Before i went on my SNG run, i'd played about 60-70 SNG's at varying levels, but i have MILLIONS of hands played previous to this foray. My time frame was essentialy as soon as I started playing these consistantly, as i had previous thought them to be hard to win in. I study alot of hands, and have every single book ever written on poker, it seems. But the short of it is that In february i had about 1200 o party and started playing 2 to 3 tables of $100's at a time, won about 1800 in a week, then started 4 tabling $200's like crazy and never looking back. i'd have moderate drawdowns here and there, but rarely one that exceeded 100 tourneys until the big hit. Near as I can call, take 11 full %off yer RoI for every level you play above your standard level, starting at $30 as base, so is yer $30 base ROI is 45%, figure 34% at 50 level, 23% at $100 level, and 12% at $200 level. Also expect tjhe swings to be probably 20% bigger ech level yo ugo up, and 50% bigger at $200 level.

Sorry is this all seems a mess, as my sonata i tokk 35 miniutesago is really starting to kick in... /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the response. I appreciate it.

[Wu36]

Much respect for posting this. A lot of what you said hits pretty close to home and reading your account puts things in perspective. I've had similar problems building my bankroll before i suffered my first huge downswing and know all too well the ignominy of playing 2/4 after dumping my(insufficient) 10/20 or 30/60 BR.
Not too sure what the above paragraph was supposed to accomplish, but either way thanks for sharing your experience and good luck returning to past glory (I saw you playing some 200s the other day so I assume you've recovered well).