lower mid-limit LA games

[pheasant tail (no 18)]

I'll be in LA for about a week in Nov. and am planning on playing lower mid-limit games (from 10-20 to 20-40). Everyone I talk to seems to think that Commerce is the best place, but I think that all games there are 2 chip 3 chip structure, i.e., 9-18 w/ $6 sb and $9 bb or 15-30 w/ $10 and $15 blinds. I have always prefered the 1 chip 2 chip structure of the sb being half the big blind. Does commerce spread any of these games. If not where do they and how good are they?

I have also been told that the 15-30 is an easier game than the 9-18. Is it so?

Anyone who gives any imput on the best games, at these limits,in the area will be appreciated.

Thanks, PT

[El Dukie]

Commerce uses a 1-3 blind structure in their 15-30 game, ($5sb/$15bb) or at least that's my recollection from last time. Hollywood park uses a 2-3 structure for 15-30. If you want 1/2, you can play the 10-20 at The Bike, or the 20-40 at Commerce or Hollywood Park. The Commerce 9-18, 15-30, and 20-40 are all very beatable, but you have to pay a little more attention to your opponents at 20-40 than at 9-18. (9-18 plays like a low-limit game most of the time. Don't bother trying to bluff much; bet and raise for value a lot.) All these limits are raked; $4 on the flop. Meaning that the rake is proportionally lower at 20-40 than at lower limits.

[haakee]

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I have also been told that the 15-30 is an easier game than the 9-18. Is it so?

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The 9-18 players are really bad. I haven't played a lot of either game there, but I can't see any mid limit game being much softer than Commerce 9-18.

The 9-18 and 15-30 have one chip/three chip blind structures, not 2/3. Commerce spreads 20-40 as well with the standard 1/2 blind structure. In fact the 20-40 is more popular than the 15-30.

[slavic]

When I played at the Commerce the 20/40 was a better game than the 15/30. At the time the 15/30 was the low game in the upper section and it seemed like it had a bunch of rocks in it. Now that it's a 3 chip 1 chip game I bet it has even more of the rockish group in it.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
When I played at the Commerce the 20/40 was a better game than the 15/30. At the time the 15/30 was the low game in the upper section and it seemed like it had a bunch of rocks in it. Now that it's a 3 chip 1 chip game I bet it has even more of the rockish group in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is generally true all over Los Angles wherever 20/40 and 15/30 are played side by side. At the Commerce, Hawaiian Gardens, and Hollywood Park (except for the 10/20 at HP which only goes on Fridays and Sundays and the 10/20 at the Bike) the 15/30 is the bottom end of top section. This means that people who want to be top section players with the associated comps (usually a special section and free food) but barely have the bankroll gravitate toward the 15/30, while the players with plenty of money (but who are leary of the 30/60 and 40/80) play the 20/40. I'd say the average pot size in average 20/40 is 60% bigger than the pots in the average 15/30. The aggression level is also much higher.

In most other places the 15/30 (with a small blind 2/3 the size of the small blind) should play about as big as a 20/40. For example, based on many reports on this forum, in Las Vegas the 15/30 at the Bellagio plays almost as big as the 20/40 at the Mirage). My guess is that besides the structure, in Las Vegas you don't play in a special section or get special treatment unless you play much bigger, therefor the blind structure along with the location at the more "touristy" Bellagio promotes more action in the 15/30.

The Commerce's change to a one chip small blind in the 15/30 along with the change to a drop (note that all clubs in Los Angeles have gone to drop instead of time collection) probably makes this game especially rocky (I can't say for sure since I'm not allowed to play there). You may want to check out this
http://tinyurl.com/44xsg Speed Racer thread on RGP from a few months ago (he started many related threads during this period, use Google's Advanced Group Search if you are interested).

~ Rick

[pheasant tail (no 18)]

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like the 9-18 and the 20-40 are the games I'll play. I've always been a little leery of the 2/3 chip structure, having not played it much. I prefer not to see raised flops from the sb and am not comfortable w/ my standards in a 2/3. (I've caught myself thinking "but it's ONLY four more chips and I have J8o" or similar non-sense when I know that I would have a clear fold in a 1/2). A 1/3 structure (which I've never played), on the other hand seems easier to play from the sb but it seems there will be fewer loose calls, and thus, mistakes, from my oponents (than in a 1/2).

Has the change from 2/3 to 1/3 proven to significantly decrease the loose play from the sb as much as one would expect, or do the players more often just make a 1 chip bigger mistake?

Has the change in structure proven to attract more of the players that are discussed in speed racers post?

Thanks again,
PT