how would you play it??

[eyekast]

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (10 handed)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="C00000">MP2 ($193.50)</font>
MP3 ($234.50)
Hero ($237.50)
Button ($84.50)
SB ($186)
BB ($80)
<font color="C00000">UTG ($258)</font>
UTG+1 ($321)
UTG+2 ($224)
<font color="C00000">MP1 ($200)</font>

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, Button calls $6, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $4, MP2 calls $4.

Flop: ($27) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($27) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets $12</font>, MP2 calls $12, Hero folds, Button calls $12.

River: ($63) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets $20</font>, MP2 calls $20, Button folds.

Final Pot: $103
<font color="green">Main Pot: $103, between MP2, UTG and MP1.</font>

[amoeba]

wouldn't have raised preflop.

post flop would have played the same.

[eyekast]

i raised pre flop to try to get the blinds to fold and if i miss the flop this sets me up to steal the pot on the flop from the two limpers... no good???

i know i shouldn't let it bother me but i could've hit my nine on the river but 12 bucks is too much to pay for a gutshot agreed?

[amoeba]

12 is definitely too much to pay for a gutshot.

also, hands like TJs derive their value from flopping their big straight/flush and having a lot of people in the pot. If you raise preflop, you are limiting amount of people who see the flop and who potentially pay you off when you do make your straight/flush and they have TPTK or 2 pair or set. Also, if this table was tighter, most people who call a 3xBB preflop bet is most likely going to hold better cards. you runnning in to a guy holding JJ or TT is just killer.

I can see stealing with this hand if you have a good read of the table as weak. And if you were the button, this move might be justified. But you were the cutoff and unfortunately the button called you and then bet in to you when the flop missed.

[BobboFitos]

Generally when I try to be cagey, and pick up T /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif and raise the blinds preflop, my caginess comes back to [censored] me.

Unless you raised preflop to steal the button, or set the hand up to take it on the flop, then it's great.

But you accomplished neither of those two tasks, as the button came around for the ride, and you didn't take a stab on the flop.

That said... I'm glad you folded on the turn with just a gutshot. Judging by the unorthodox way you played this hand on earlier streets, I was mildly expecting a call.

As for the river, that's just unfortunate. Ignoring implied odds for a minute, you'll catch your 4 outer 4 / 46 times, or less than 9% of the time. Calling 12 to win 63, as it pans out, and knowing the button will never raise and only call, is a losing proposition.
(100 x over, you win 9 x 63, lose 91 x 12, for a net result of -525, or expected loss of 5.25$/hand, ignoring implied odds.)

Needless to say, I hope MP1 showed down the runner-runner nut flush draw, and you felt good about folding the gutshot. All speculations here.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
i raised pre flop to try to get the blinds to fold and if i miss the flop this sets me up to steal the pot on the flop from the two limpers... no good???

i know i shouldn't let it bother me but i could've hit my nine on the river but 12 bucks is too much to pay for a gutshot agreed?

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW! I AM A HOTSHOT! I posted a reply without reading this. hahahahaha.

Ok... Sorry. Anyways, about picking the pot up on the flop, you didn't bet!!!!!!!! So I may ask you, WTF was with that, dude?! As for hitting your straight, I included calculations to show it's a bad play, thank me in advance.

[fimbulwinter]

eyekast- let me temper bobbo here.
you made a bad play, possibly drawing to only 3 clean outs. bobo is being caustic and it's somewhat warranted. you made a PFR and didnt follow through, that's bad. you drew without even the implied odds to do so, bad as well. just realize that our resident matusow has a point and (i think) wants to help.

[TomCollins]

Wtf did you fold your gutshot for $20 for? If you are going to chase and can't call small bets when you hit, you need to stick to limit. Its hard to find hands that are misplayed on every street, but I think we have one.

[eyekast]

ok the reason i didn't bet the flop was because the button called my raise. what did he have? he probaly hit the flop or at the very least ahead in the hand. so instead of giving more money away i decided to lay it down.

as far as misplayed every round you have no idea what you are talking about. i bet pre flop then didn't bet anymore. so i only tried something and didn't work the end! didn't lose any more money chasing as you said you would. paying 12 for a gut shot is way to much as bobbo already pointed out.

[eyekast]

[ QUOTE ]
Wtf did you fold your gutshot for $20 for? If you are going to chase and can't call small bets when you hit, you need to stick to limit. Its hard to find hands that are misplayed on every street, but I think we have one.

[/ QUOTE ]

also it wasn't 20 it was 12 and i didn't hit my gutshot i was drawing to it. i would have folded the flop had someone bet. i don't mean to be rude but it seems you are so take it for what its worth

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
hands like TJs derive their value from flopping their big straight/flush and having a lot of people in the pot. If you raise preflop, you are limiting amount of people who see the flop and who potentially pay you off when you do make your straight/flush and they have TPTK or 2 pair or set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nice...excellent analysis and easy to understand for the beginning player...