View Full Version : what to do on the river?
34TheTruth34
09-14-2004, 10:34 AM
party 10/20 6-max
folded to you on the button and you open raise with AKo. The SB, a tight aggressive winning player, three-bets, BB folds, you cap, SB calls. The SB would probably three-bet here with any hand he would play, but wouldn't play many in this spot (i.e., usually folds if he has nothing but plays aggressively when he does play).
Flop Q-T-6 rainbow. SB checks, you bet, he raises, you three-bet, he caps, you call.
Turn 4. He bets, you call.
River 5. He bets. Now what? Comments appreciated.
I would have merely called the flop CR and folded the turn. Your pair outs are very suspect, so I'm not crazy about committing that much money when you are in no way guaranteed of a free card on the turn.
The only hands I could see you beating on the river are AJ or KJs, with AJ pretty unlikely given your read on this guy. With 8.5bb in there, calling can't be a huge mistake, but I still lean toward a fold.
Gazza
09-14-2004, 11:24 AM
It's too late to fold. I make that 11.5BB in there on the river Zele.
But I agree that you overplayed your hand on the flop.
Just call his raise and then it is pretty close between folding the turn and calling him down. I would probably call him down with somewhere between 4 and 10 outs if we are behind and some chance that we are not.
Maybe you could check behind on the flop? That could scare him
Gazza
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I make that 11.5BB in there on the river Zele.
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You are quite correct. Not sure what I was thinking.
raise the river
or fold
probably fold
34TheTruth34
09-14-2004, 10:55 PM
need more responses.
*bump*
Nate tha' Great
09-14-2004, 11:25 PM
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party 10/20 6-max
folded to you on the button and you open raise with AKo. The SB, a tight aggressive winning player, three-bets, BB folds, you cap, SB calls. The SB would probably three-bet here with any hand he would play, but wouldn't play many in this spot (i.e., usually folds if he has nothing but plays aggressively when he does play).
Flop Q-T-6 rainbow. SB checks, you bet, he raises, you three-bet, he caps, you call.
Turn 4. He bets, you call.
River 5. He bets. Now what? Comments appreciated.
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Whether or not I'm tight aggressive is debatable, but if I were your opponent, I couldn't see myself taking this line with a hand that you beat. I would fold.
34TheTruth34
09-15-2004, 12:10 AM
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Maybe you could check behind on the flop?
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is this a joke?
34TheTruth34
09-15-2004, 12:12 AM
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I would fold.
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where?
and do you agree with the flop bet and/or three-bet?
I know you are a winning player in the 15/30, do you play much of the 10/20 6-max?
34TheTruth34
09-15-2004, 12:16 AM
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raise the river
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why? what hand would he fold that you beat? I can assure you that he's not trying to make an amazing laydown here.
Nate tha' Great
09-15-2004, 12:34 AM
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I would fold.
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where?
and do you agree with the flop bet and/or three-bet?
I know you are a winning player in the 15/30, do you play much of the 10/20 6-max?
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I'd almost always bet the flop - a hand like 99 will fold right there - but it would usually be with the intention of checking behind on the turn if I did not improve. I don't understand what the 3-bet is meant to accomplish. If he has a made hand, a TAG will not hestiate to cap it and you'll wind up putting in a full BB with the worst of it.
Calling the turn is a must, whether you had or hadn't 3-bet the flop ... you're probably drawing to 6.5 outs on the average and the pot is big enough in either circumstance to justify that.
Ironically, I would often call the river too if I *hadn't* put that third bet in on the flop. Even though the pot would be smaller I wouldn't have given my opponent as much of a chance to define his hand and I'd like to look him up. But the way that you played it ... I don't think *you* need to call the river since while the SB will check-raise with draws and made hands alike, he is very unlikely to put in the cap out of position with just a draw on a flop that could very easily have hit you. So I salvage some fraction of the mistake that was made with the flop 3-bet by saving myself a bet on the river.
-Nate
p.s. I'm splitting my time about equally these days between the 10/20 6-max and the 15/30 full, usually two tables of one and one of the other.
I call just to look him up.
You can't just fold to him for one bet on the river. He might even have the same hand you do!
If you fold this river, I think you are giving up too much information about your play. He will take many more river shots at you in the future and you will have a hard time knowing when he has a hand and when he's bluffing.
If he has a good read on you, he may have put you on AK and just bet b/c you missed the flop. In any case, I call down this time.
34TheTruth34
09-15-2004, 06:00 AM
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You can't just fold to him for one bet on the river. He might even have the same hand you do!
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a good player is not betting the river with AK here, unless he's made some kind of amazing super read and has figured out that we have the same hand (and thinks I'll fold mine).
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If he has a good read on you, he may have put you on AK and just bet b/c you missed the flop. In any case, I call down this time
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again, I think these reads are impossible on line, but I understand your thinking. thanks for the response.
well obviously you are thinking of calling the river, so if you raise, he he'll fold all hands that you beat or if he was bluffing, but he might also fold AK. plus he'll never think of your play in the same way again. i just don't know what calling this river accomplishes.
of course i would probably fold as first option
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