push preflop here???

[Phill S]

i know i played it right on the flop (no other way to play it really).

but should i have just pushed preflop. my instincts tell me i did no wrong and its just one of those things, but are they right???

by the way, this isnt one of those i cant believe the fish round here type posts, but i would like to know if my line is right.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed)

UTG+1 (t1355)
MP1 (t1115)
MP2 (t1990)
MP3 (t265)
Hero (t1255)
Button (t2895)
SB (t1265)
BB (t660)
UTG (t2700)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises to t350</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t800</font>, Button folds, SB calls t775, BB folds, MP1 calls t450.

Flop: (t2450) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets t465 (All-In)</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls t455 (All-In).

Turn: (t3370) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t3370) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t3370
<font color="green">Main Pot: t3360 (t3360), between Hero and SB.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by SB (t3360).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t10 (t10), returned to SB.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB has 6h 6d (three of a kind, sixes).
Hero has As Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: SB wins t3370. </font>

my thinking preflop was id cut down the field with a raise but id also help build a pot as i was sure mp1 would call it.

but should i have just gone for the smaller pot with a push, and if he called more the better???

Phill

[chill888]

Once there is a decent pot preflop (after his initial raise) I always push with AA. If he folds great. If he calls great. You don't really want 3 way action.

Your raise is not horrible by any stretch - but I'd still push.

gl

[betgo]

I don't see the big difference. You were both pot committed with the bet you made.

[chill888]

it isn't a big difference but an all in might of prevented 3rd guy joining - I don't really want 3 way action in a tourney even with AA. And 66 might still fold after flop if it is something like 10 J Q

gl

[PrayingMantis]

There's not much difference, and it is more of "psychology of fish" question, IMO. If you think this guy will call your 800 raise PF, but will not call all-in, then raising this much PF and pushing on pretty much any flop, is better than reraising all-in PF. Otherwise it doesn't make a difference, since if he's a thinking player he'll understand he's pot-commited (like you are). But of course he isn't thinking too much. The same goes for SB over-call.

And generally I don't really worry if I get a 3-way action when I hold aces, even if it's all-in. I really don't. I know how some people feel about it, but I find it too be such a huge +CEV proposition, that no real argue can be said, IMO, against it.

If you play your aces strong and get action, great. Most of the mistakes people do with AA are quite opposite: slow-playing them PF, sometimes even on the flop, and starting to get aggressive only on the turn or something, when it's many times way too late.

BTW: beware of the bad-beat police, I hear they are everywhere... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[wilkcards]

ALL IN! If I were the raiser with the sixes I would almost assume you had aces, and definitely assume you had me beat when you put in that strange re-raise. A straight all-in would make me think you might have ak aq and I'd be more inclined to call, I think.

I'd also be happy to just take down the pot there. Looks like there was 500 in the pot when it got to you, which would represent about 40% increase in your stack, which I would be plenty happy with.
Does anyone feel the same way?

[Phill S]

mp1 was the raiser, im thinking that he had JJ or maybe AK but his hand was irrelivent to the outcome.

on reflection im thinking it was a case of a fish falling for a pocket pair and i was basicly screwed royally (he called 800, 2/3 of his stack on 66!!!).

but the replies regarding push or raise are food for thought. thanks so far guys.

anyone with anything to add???

Phill (the grateful)

[willie]

i'd reraise in preflop

but it wouldn't have changed the outcome.

the funniest thing though is when someone calls the big raise, misses their set and is left holding a pair of 6s.....

oh well, sometimes you just gotta laugh it off and say nice hand.

[reecelights]

I think if you push it doesn't give the 66 any doubt about your hand, and doesn't give him an out if he misses his set. By leaving him 400ish, he can think "if I miss, I can wait for a better moment." If he thought he had you beat, HE would have pushed, by calling he's trying to get lucky. Also, by betting 2/3 of your stack, you look like you're trying to steal, and have some doubts about your hand. You're now pot committed and are going to push on the flop unless you read MP1 for a set.

By pushing, you're probably not here asking if you should have pushed. If SB hit a set after you pushed, you say "oh well."

[kleraudio]

i believe a pre flop push would have been best. the pot was already big before the flop. its better to take that pot down, than to take a chance of a 4.5:1 underdog sucking out on you. also, since you didnt push preflop, your call of the SB push on the flop was perfectly correct. You played it fine, just got unlucky.

Just my opinion /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Jim