K8o in BB...your move

[Garland]

Location: Lucky Chances in Colma, CA (near San Francisco)
Stakes: NL tournament. $30+$40 rebuy (+$15 house fee)
Players: Loose and very poor

We started out with T1000 and I added on T1500. It's now the 5th stage of the tournament, and I haven't won a single hand. I have only T1325 left, and the blinds are now T100-T200 and antes are T25. I post in BB T200 and have only T1100 after posting blinds and antes. It's 9-handed.

UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, MP limps, LMP limps, SB completes and I hold K /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and check my option.

The flop comes:

K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, now it's your move. What do you do?

There is T1425 in the pot and you have T1100 left.

Garland

[wilkcards]

[ QUOTE ]
Location: Lucky Chances in Colma, CA (near San Francisco)
Stakes: NL tournament. $30+$40 rebuy (+$15 house fee)
Players: Loose and very poor

We started out with T1000 and I added on T1500. It's now the 5th stage of the tournament, and I haven't won a single hand. I have only T1325 left, and the blinds are now T100-T200 and antes are T25. I post in BB T200 and have only T1100 after posting blinds and antes. It's 9-handed.

UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, MP limps, LMP limps, SB completes and I hold K /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and check my option.

The flop comes:

K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, now it's your move. What do you do?

There is T1425 in the pot and you have T1100 left.

Garland

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd check. With four limpers it's likely you're beat. If all check to the button, and he bets I might push/call all in there. If there is a bet, and call after your check you're pretty positive you're beat. The fact that you're short-stacked doesn't give you cause to give your chips away.

[parade]

[ QUOTE ]
Location: Lucky Chances in Colma, CA (near San Francisco)
Stakes: NL tournament. $30+$40 rebuy (+$15 house fee)
Players: Loose and very poor

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you say the entry is $30 + $15 house fee? Wow...

I don't like checking with a top pair. Even tho you're small stacked, I would still make a small bet coming out and get a feel of where you are at with the hand.

[gergery]

I’d probably check. Your shortstack push here is unlikely to get a better hand to fold (maybe KJ/KT at best), whereas checking is more likely to get worse hands like A9/TT/Axs,K-littlesuited to put money in (they might put money in even if you bet, but there’s a better chance if you check). If it comes around and there’s heavy action you can fold, while if there are just one or two in you probably call since you’re getting good odds and a reasonable chance they have a Ax suited instead of AK.

Running some simple math, there are around 70 combinations of hands that beat you (KK, 99, 44 could be dealt 7 ways, K9/K4 could be dealt 18 ways, etc.), and compare to the set of hands that could limp at bad table (any pair, any ace, any connector or suited 1-gapper), maybe 600 or so then adjust that for 5 players ---- well, I haven’t multiplied it out, but I think you’re beat maybe 50% of the time.

--Greg

[wilkcards]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Location: Lucky Chances in Colma, CA (near San Francisco)
Stakes: NL tournament. $30+$40 rebuy (+$15 house fee)
Players: Loose and very poor

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you say the entry is $30 + $15 house fee? Wow...

I don't like checking with a top pair. Even tho you're small stacked, I would still make a small bet coming out and get a feel of where you are at with the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think "betting to see where you're at" is a bad play.

[durron597]

I've been experimenting with check-raising hands like this. Of course, be careful only to try it against the opponents who will bet any flop if checked to, etc., not the ones who usually only bet their hands... i think this is a great flop for it IMO because opponents aren't likely to have a monster on this board and you can very easily be put on a hand like 44 with a shortstack check-raise push.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been experimenting with check-raising hands like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that a reasonable bet into a pot of that size will likely put me all-in taking the check-raise play away.

Garland

[durron597]

I officially need to read the thread more carefully. Scratch what I said.

[Garland]

I was a desperate man with only 5x the BB with antes! I hit the top pair and wanted to protect it against others who hit the flop or a flush draw, and in my T1100 went. I was called by LMP hoping to see two spades in his hand. No luck, he had KJ and the turn and river offered no improvement.

Thanks for your comments,

Garland

[uclaguy]

You made the correct decision. Considering antes, you have less than 5.5 BB and hit top pair. If you push on the flop there is a good chance that a hand that doesnt have you beat will call (flush draw) allowing you to double up and gain some breathing room. Furthermore, I assume that at level five you are still far off the money and will need to get lucky to get in the money, so even if you get called by a better king, you are probably not drawing dead if you hit your kicker. Bottom line: 5BBs w/ antes...you cant wait for better than top pair regardless of kicker in an un-raised pot.

[TStoneMBD]

i go with the check here. if LP bets you can push if you think youre good. if it gets checked around then I would push on the turn. i think this play is alot safer. i think that a free card is less dangerous than risking your chips against all these limpers who could easily have a king.