2/4 KQs in EP. When do I raise/fold?!?

[j0n_blayze]

Loose passive 2/4 table. All the cold-calling PF scares me. I decide to slowplay the flop... is this the right play? CO's raise on the turn scares me. I decide to bet out on the river and call a raise... but then the SB's bet just screams Axs here. Is calling OK? Anyone say fold the second nut? doubt it.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, SB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (16.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB


<font color="red"> RESULTS TO COME </font>

[Bigdaddydvo]

i make it a point to only worry about my K high flush when there's 4 spades on the board. With only 3, if he has Axs, then he has Axs, and I'll just pay for it. no way in hell you could fold this.

3 bet the turn and make the ace of spades draw out on you. A 3 bet will likely ensure the river is checked to you, meaning you can bet and be called by 2 pair or something.

You set up the slowplay w/the flop. Hammer it home on the last 2 streets.

[thirddan]

i would lead the flop and hope to 3bet...and no, you can't fold this hand...

[Stellastarr]

I agree with the Bigdaddy

[devinthedude]

Dude you left alot of money on the table on this one.

The PF raise is good. On the flop you dont get much more of an ideal spot to checkraise than this. The PF 3-bettor is right behind you. You can get the whole field to call an extra bet. Leading the turn is good. When you get raised, you need to 3-bet. SB has already called 2 cold, and if one of them is drawing to a lone spade they arent going to pay you off on the river if they miss.

Sb's bet should mean nothing to you on the river. What are you scared of? I dont see any way that mp2 could have you beaten, Maybe he has A /images/graemlins/spade.gifAx. I think you should have raised the river and capped it if reraised. In this type of game you will get shown a smaller flush quite a bit, and stuff even more ridiculous.

Since "fold" was in the title, I'll guess that sb had A /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and took it down. But to answer the question when to fold, the answer is less than 0% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
SB's bet just screams Axs here

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it doesn't. With you guys creating all the action behind him what the hell does he want to bet into you for on the river when he has slowplayed it for this long? It screams 'I hope you guys were drawing to another spade' I will say it again man, in this type of game, you will win way more often than you lose when you cap it on the river in a hand like this.

Im not the first and I wont be the last one to say it. Don't be results oriented.

[Fnord]

If don't have enough gamble in you to cap this flop, then you're done playing poker for the day.

[Grvnhigh]

Heck, I'm capping from the flop on. You are so incredibly unlikely to be behind at any point in this hand after the flop. At showdown, your opponents likely cursed their bad luck, and then silently thanked you for charging them the least possible with your AMAZING hand. You left several hundred hands worth of expectation on the table on this one, IMO

[Malcom Reynolds]

Cap every street postflop. What am I missing here?

There's one card in the deck that can beat you, and likely that hand was drawing to a fourth flush card on the board. You will be facing A/images/graemlins/spade.gifx/images/graemlins/spade.gif an extremely small small small amount of the time. If you lose this hand, and it wasn't expensive, you misplayed it.

[nepenthe]

You don't ever begin to consider folding this hand until the board pairs and/or fourth spade comes and it's something like 2 or 3 bets to you. As the board stands in your post, you try and cap every street postflop and maybe just call a river 3-bet if it comes to that.

[modernmess]

i dont think the sbs bet screams Ax at all. i wouldnt be suprised if he flipped over 78 or trips or a lot of things. as everyone else said, you missed a lot of bets here because instead of slowplaying the flop you practically slowplayed the whole hand. try not to see monsters all the time, especially when you have one. you need to make this pot big so the few times you play a hand like this and are beat youll have already had it paid for.

[j0n_blayze]

ALRIGHT ALREADY! j/k Thanks for the advice. I am too timid of a player and I freeze up when I see a strange bet. I guess only experience can help that.

Results below:
SB has Kc Ts (one pair, tens).
Hero has Qs Ks (flush, king high).
CO has 8s 8h (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero wins 19.50 BB.

[TheHip41]

Raise the river