Players who habitually try to bluff out the preflop raiser

[Mike Mussina]

In 5/6 handed games, I've noticed some players have an aggressive style towards to PF raiser. If they are in a hand with you, and you raised PF, they will be determined to bluff you out.

This is what they do:

He limps. You raise behind him. Everyone else fold, he calls, and now it's heads-up. Since you raised, he assumes you have AK.

If the flop comes 3 small rags, he assumes you missed the flop. He bets into you even if he has nothing. Many players will play back at him by raising the flop.

But some bluffers are more creative. Sometimes they checkraise-bluff the flop, and then lead into you on the turn. Or sometimes when you raise the flop, they do a stop-and-go. When they bet again on the turn, it becomes a tougher decision.

Is there a good counter strategy to thwart this play? And against these players, do you usually play Ace-high till the end?

[Blarg]

I'm seeing a ton of this in the $1/2 6-max I started playing. I see more of that in a few hours than I do in a few weeks of full-table play. I think it partly goes down to the desire of $1/2 and other beginning players, as well as shorthanded players in general perhaps, to be "tricky."

I mean, they will do it against you whether they've seen you folding many hands once you've seen the flop or not. It's not necessarily a move tailored to who you are as a player when they do this against you. Their experience might have already told them that you're exactly the wrong guy to do this to, but they'll do it anyway. It seems like a standard "clever idea" at the time it comes to them, and one they should apply as often as possible. Kind of like check-raising; some people love to do it they will do it in situations where they would have been much better off doing something else. The inability to tell the difference is the mark of poorer players. Put another way -- some people don't play the player, and they don't play the player's cards. They play THEIR OWN CARDS mostly, and their own ideas. They're barely watching you or anything else on the table.

I try to make my decision based on what info I have. If I don't know the guy, I tend to call down a lot just to see what he has and what kind of player he is, until the cards tell me it's a really bad idea. A guy betting out into rag flops isn't necessarily saying he has a good hand -- he can just be saying he thinks you will fold if he bets. Pretty big difference.

If I know the guy, sometimes it's a fold for me, if the pot is small. Say if I raised preflop with AQ and a tight player bets out, especially in early position, when a jack hits the flop. I pretty much know he's got at least jacks, and while I've got two higher cards to give me six outs on, if the pot isn't laying me 7 to 1, I'll probably fold it. Against another guy, I might be looking to stay for at least one more small bet.

But generally, while it's very expensive to call too much in poker, becoming known as someone who easily folds when a bunch of rags come up -- or even when a scare card comes up -- is I think going to lose me too much money in short-handed poker. If one person makes you out as a weak, scared player, the whole table may pile on and start betting and raising you out of pots where you hold the best hand and they hold nothing. I don't want to let that cycle get started.

[Zele]

If you've identified him as such, 3-bet and plan on seeing the showdown (I wouldn't want to just check-call since you are giving him at least 6 outs if you have him beat). If he's a real berzerko, i.e. he might 4-bet you as a bluff and you can count on him betting every street either way, maybe just check-call. Obviously, a read is critical here.

[stripsqueez]

i dont see a problem

if i raised pre-flop (ie i have a serious hand) and have position on the potential bluffer he will go broke quickish taking too many shots at me

i dont see a heap of such players - when i do its not hard to arrange to see a showdown reasonably cheap if i have position

stripsqueez - chickenhawk