Ramming and jamming on a K high flush draw

[DrewOnTilt]

Given the multilple opponents and raises, would anyone have slowed down on this one? Or was I right to never let off the gas until I missed on the river?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

River: (25 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero folds, SB calls $2 (All-In).

Final Pot: 27.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB has 4h 4c (three of a kind, fours).
UTG has 5c 7c (straight, eight high).
MP2 has Qs Kh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: UTG wins 27.50 BB. </font>

[Alobar]

I dont like the flop 3 bet. There was a raise which suggests your pair of 6s arnt going to win unimproved. If you drive out other people with a 3 bet your chances of winning dont go up any. Keep them in the game.

why are you raising the turn? This is a very bad play IMO.

[jrobb83]

If you are sure that at least one opponent will cold call your flop 3-bet you can raise for value, if two call, all the better. You were flinging money at your opponenents on the turn, though. With only one card to come your pot equity is much lower, and the suited 8 also lowers your equity quite a bit as well. Thus you can no longer jam for value on the turn.

[Garland]

You gave excess action on the turn. SB responds to your 3-bet by leading the turn? You raise and now UTG+1 has come out of the woods with a hand with a check-raise to your turn raise. Disaster. You could have avoided this by simply smooth-calling the turn bet by SB.

The bottom line on the turn is:
a) You're certainly beaten in 2 (now discovered 3) spots by the action given to you.
b) You don't really have outs to clean up.
c) You need to improve to win. While your initial raise on the flop was fine for value, it's time to use your position to your advantage and take the cheap turn card.

I also recommend leaving out the results to the hand until after people have posted as it tends to taint commentary.

Garland

[Barry]

I think that your play on the flop is fine; you have a nice draw and raising for value here is fine with 4 opponents.


However, on the turn you waaaaay overplayed the hand. Based upon the betting here, it looks like you have to make your flush to win. So just call here and pray for a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif .

[nepenthe]

When SB bets out the turn, stop and think VERY CAREFULLY about what he may have. That's right. A made straight. Maybe a set. Maybe a turned flush draw? Unlikely. Also consider MP2's raise on the flop. Do you think he also has a flush draw? He probably has a made hand, and it's better than your pair of 6's. You must categorize all these possibilities and act accordingly. This means you call the turn.

Look what happened when UTG calls/3-bets the turn. He has a set, and less likely a made straight. Granted, this is an absolutely STUPID play by UTG if he does have a set/straight, due to the double-flush possibilities. Due to UTG's sheer stupidity, you had a chance to get a cheap look at the river. You kicked away this gift from UTG and blew it.

[DrewOnTilt]

I raised and cappped for flush draw value (no way my pair of sixes would win alone). These people were calling stations, and I didn't figure them to fold.

As for the turn - yep, I figured I had gotten a bit trigger-happy.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I raised and cappped for flush draw value (no way my pair of sixes would win alone). These people were calling stations, and I didn't figure them to fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

as long as you are sure they wont fold then the flop 3 bet is ok. but if it would fold anyone out, I dont like it.

[BigEndian]

I love players at my table who play like this.

[Edit] For clarity, if you're on a passive loose table you need to slow down when someone else is ramming and jamming with you. Very likely some of your diamond outs are not good.

- Jim

[DrewOnTilt]

That's nice. What's your point?

[TheHip41]

Anyone fold this preflop?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone fold this preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont

[DrewOnTilt]

I was in late position and had several callers already in the pot. Otherwise I pitch this in the trash without hesitation.