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View Full Version : Help on 1st hand of a Party 5+1 STT


TacoVendor
09-12-2004, 04:09 PM
The hand in question is below. Results are in white, and I put them here because they are not really important to what I am looking for. I would like to gather some advise on my thinking during the betting.

1st hand of a Party 5+1 STT. Of course I have no reads on opponents except for one key player in the hand. Read through the hand for my thoughts.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP2 (t800)
<font color="C00000">MP3 (t800)</font>
CO (t800)
<font color="C00000">Hero (t800)</font>
<font color="C00000">SB (t800)</font>
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises to t30</font>,
UTG+1 folds,
UTG+2 folds,
MP1 folds,
MP2 calls t30,
MP3 calls t30,

**I have previous notes about MP3 which show he is VERY loose and calls to see nearly every flop - I am not worried about this person at all

CO folds,
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t80</font>,

**With a single raise from an early position to me I thought this might be best. Would 125 or so have been better?

<font color="CC3333">SB raises to t300</font>,

**I thought this bet was much too strong. My thought was that he was trying to push everyone from the pot and grab a good amount of chips early. If I had bet 125 or more and seen this raise, I would have dumped it.

BB folds,
UTG folds,
MP2 folds,
MP3 calls t270,

**This call does not surpise me with this player. Still not worried about him.

<font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t800 (All-In)</font>,

**This is where I sat for a moment. I didn't want to just call because I knew that if I pushed here that MP3 would call it. My thinking was that if I win the coin-flip with the SB then I triple up early and am very strong for the wild front end like these 5+1 tourney usually get.

SB calls t500 (All-In),
MP3 calls t500 (All-In).

**No surprise on MP3

Flop: (t2475) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>


Turn: (t2475) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

River: (t2475) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2475

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB has 8d 8c (one pair, eights).
MP3 has Qc 4h (two pair, queens and fours).
Hero has Ks Ah (high card, ace).
Outcome: MP3 wins t2475. </font>

Some additional info:
I typically play the $10 and $20 STT's at Party, but sit at the $5 ones when I just feel like getting a bunch of hands in cheaply to ready for the cheap and loose MTT's that Party runs. I see often the first couple of rounds in these $5 STT's very crazy and my goal is to double up in the first orbit against the loose players.

I do know, and I did see at the time, that my hand was pretty much a coin-flip against whatever the SB had, but I figured that it was worth pushing on that one to try and triple up.

Was my bet in line with odds for the pot size?

Thanks for the help.

LokiV
09-12-2004, 04:36 PM
I have no real advice about your play right now, but I'm finding it hilarious that MP3 won. I doubt the entire table erupted into laughter, but they really should have.

How fast until he blew that entire stack? Level 2 or maybe he tightened up and lasted until level 3.

'cause guys, we really all know poker is gambling. Eh? Eh? Eh? ..ok, done.

willperkins
09-12-2004, 04:52 PM
I don't know that my way is correct, but this is what I would have done facing the same scenario going with the information you provided with MP3.
UTG raises only t30. If he is a good player, he would only raise from UTG with AA, KK, QQ or AK. Why only t30 though?

I would have raised t120 (his t30+3xbb).

Since SB reraised and M3P called, I probably would have laid it down. I would put SB on QQ or AK. I have AK and the odds are long that he has AA or KK. If my read is correct, it is pretty much a coin flip and I don't want a coin flip on the first hand of the tourney. Especially since MP3 came with both of you. Now you have to beat two of them.
I am not faulting your "all in" bet, I am just offering my humble opinion and I could be wrong. Thoughts anyone?

chill888
09-12-2004, 05:08 PM
best advice is avoid the $5 + $1 games. 20% rake!!!

Lots of sites have $5 + 0$.50

(like Stars)

TacoVendor
09-12-2004, 05:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Since SB reraised and M3P called, I probably would have laid it down. I would put SB on QQ or AK. I have AK and the odds are long that he has AA or KK. If my read is correct, it is pretty much a coin flip and I don't want a coin flip on the first hand of the tourney. Especially since MP3 came with both of you. Now you have to beat two of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

This portion is really what my question is about.

Since I have AK, odds of AA or KK are long. I had put the SB on pocket 10's, JJ or QQ. That leaves my AK with coin flip odds. If it were only me and SB in this hand I would have put it down without even thinking.

Since MP3 was tagging along it made me think differently. I was 90% sure I had him beat, leaving me against the SB with another whole stack in there for the ride.

If anyone else would have called, I would have laid it down as well.

Although my original post sounds kind of like a bad beat story, that is not the case at all. I may not have been ahead of them both together, but I was pretty sure of being ahead of one, and figured myself even with the other. Without more insight, I would probably do the same thing right now if I faced the same situation.

On a higher stakes STT or in an MTT early, I would have laid this down as well. It was the MP3 and general looseness of the $5+1's that made me take the shot.

LLXC
09-13-2004, 03:39 AM
You'd be surprised how many first hand all ins I've seen with marginal hands on $5/1 and $10/1 PartyPoker SnGs. Do these players feel they don't stand a chance if they don't double up early?

chill888
09-13-2004, 05:06 AM
While your post talks about a lot of thinking at ever point, I suspect you were happy to "push 'em" all in preflop.

Not a horrible play and maybe a good play at low levels or high levels against certain opponents - but an important skill to learn is how not to go broke with AK. You were gambling ... fair enough.

TacoVendor
09-13-2004, 08:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
While your post talks about a lot of thinking at ever point, I suspect you were happy to "push 'em" all in preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I was NOT very happy about going in preflop against the SB. I will agree that it is not much time, but I nearly ran the timer out trying to figure out if this was at least a 'decent' call. I was more than happy to put my chips in against the person in MP3.

Pushing in wasn't going to push MP3 off of his cards (and I didn't want to either), and since the SB raised like he did, I was sure he would stay in as well. I was strictly pushing because I knew I would be pretty much even up with the SB and that the stack from MP3 was going to one of us.

Not having been in this specific situation pre-flop had me push since the stakes were low and the competition generally less. My thoughts at the time were that I was getting the better odds from pushing it, but since I really don't know, I ask here.