Simple preflop JJ problem.

[VarlosZ]

2nd level of a PokerStars $50+$5 NLHE, blinds 15/30. I've got about 2300. I'm dealt JJ on the button. UTG (T4800) raises to 180, folds around to CO (T1100) who calls. The table, these players included, had been consistently loose and aggressive (though not maniacle) to this point.

Raise, call, or fold? Why?

[betgo]

Call. With three-way action and deep enough stacks, you have the implied odds to flop your set.

Maniacal or not, with a huge UTG raise and a caller, there is a good chance one of your opponents has a higher pair. You may be up against QQ or KK. It seems unlikely that either opponent would play as he did with aces. They are both representing JJ, QQ, KK, AK, or AQ, so there is a good chance one of them has a big hand.

Raising is therefore too dangerous. If you flop a set and someone has a higher pair, you should get paid off well. With overcards, particularly an ace, you check/fold.

I might do the same on an underflop. Again, with this betting there is serious danger of a higher pair. With players like this, it would be hard to take the pot if they both have overcards and you are ahead. You don't want to invest to many chips after an underflop, because one on them may have you beat, so it may not be worth playing this.

When you are playing maniacal players, try to only be in the hand with them when you have the goods.

[Poker Junkie]

I think it seems to early in the tournament to risk much when there is a big raise like this that is also called by another player at the table. JJ is a good hand and you have great position but even if UTG is running a bluff/semi-bluff I would worry about CO calling and what it may mean he/she has. I think you have to lay this one down. Hope what ever you chose worked for you.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gifWalt

[betgo]

The fact that one or both of your opponents probably has a big pair is all the more reason to call. You have a good chance to double up if you hit the set.

[Roman]

I usually play this for set value. Ocassionaly you might win a pot or two with undercards in it too.

[VarlosZ]

Thanks for the responses. I folded, figuring an overpair to be very likely. In that case, a low flop would mean I'd probably lose a decent amount of chips.

For that reason, I don't think my implied odds for a set are enough (I'm hardly guaranteed to get it paid off, even less so paid off by the big stack). This was a good table (actually, the whole tournament was good, as people were busting out very quickly) -- I figured I could wait for a better spot.

Showdown: UTG had AQo, CO had A9s.

Apparently, I overestimiated these players' raising/calling standards.

[SossMan]

Apparently, I overestimiated these players' raising/calling standards.



seems to be a common mistake around here.