The "I put him on a total bluff" call

[durron597]

Man I love this. It's not so much of a strategy point as a random musing, but I just love hands where a guy calls with like... A4o on a J97rb board. Sure, the guy who pushed only had A9 himself, but still.

And I'm not talking about high blinds either, where dead money gives nearly every call odds, I'm talking about level one and two. It just boggles the mind whenever I see it.

[poboy]

Watching the early stages of a SNG is always good for a few laughs. I've seen similar plays to this many times and you wonder what the hell were they thinking. My favorite though is when someone from EP raises gets a call, then someone from MP raises all-in, one of the blinds call, the original raiser calls, and the guy next to him also calls. Now obviously all 4 of them can't have good enough hands to make this play. When the cards are flipped up it looks something like KTo,Q7o,AQs, and 55 .All you can do is shake your head and wonder what the hell was the EP doing raising with that , why would the guy next to him even call the first raise let alone call the all-in, how could you push with AQ here, and calling with the small pair(even though he is the small favorite) is just asking to go out. When the cards are dealt the guy with Q7o wins it when he hits a 7 on the river. I mean you just can't find entertainment like that anywhere else.

[PrayingMantis]

I don't know why you two are so happy and amuzed about these hands being played like that at early stages at your game.

I'd think this kind of a table will hurt your win-rate, since these bad players obviously reduce your skill-advantage as good players. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Look for better games, maybe higher limit, ASAP. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[poboy]

You are kidding right? This helps my win rate more than any other factor I believe. I've sat there and done nothing and am 3 people closer to the money. True I will have a harder time with the guy that knocked off those 3 and now has a huge stack, but overall I think it's worth it.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
You are kidding right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, it was only a reference to some very long and quite silly thread from the last couple of days, titled something like "how would a pro do playing SNGs".

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Irieguy]

I know what you mean. I keep having to move up limits because I can't find a game where people won't be willing to call all-in with nothing. While I'm sure they're losing, how am I supposed to outplay somebody after the flop in level 2 if they keep knocking themselves out in level 1? Last night 4 people were gone by the end of level 1... that's 4 fewer people I could outplay- thereby reducing my overlay 4-fold. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Irieguy

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
how am I supposed to outplay somebody after the flop in level 2 if they keep knocking themselves out in level 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good point.

Sometimes, there are cases where EP player pushes, another calls, and you just really wish that there won't be any over-calls from anybody else, so there will still be enough players to outplay later on in the game...

And there are cases were you are really considering folding KK, because a player in front of you pushed, and he could have _anything_, so there's a big chance he will actually LOSE and BUST if you call, and again, you won't have a chance to outplay him in the next orbit.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[patrick dicaprio]

i hate to say it but I did this theother day. opponent is first in on the button raises to 700, blinds are 100/200, i have A9o and call all in. doh!

Pat

[Bigwig]

After a hand like the 4-way all-in mentioned, you always know who some of the better players are at the table when someone types: Okay.

Or, ?.

[Eder]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know why you two are so happy and amuzed about these hands being played like that at early stages at your game.

I'd think this kind of a table will hurt your win-rate, since these bad players obviously reduce your skill-advantage as good players. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Look for better games, maybe higher limit, ASAP. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

PM thats 1 strike against you...I might take it seriously

[Geng]

or, "this should be interesting..." /images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Geng

[LinusKS]

[ QUOTE ]
You are kidding right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's making snotty comments about me.

[LokiV]

[ QUOTE ]
After a hand like the 4-way all-in mentioned, you always know who some of the better players are at the table when someone types: Okay.

Or, ?.

[/ QUOTE ]

You actually just pointed out an unnecessary hole in my game. I will now act as if those hands are the most natural thing in the world.

My usual response is either an involuntary typing of "Okay." (funny you say that...) or just "Whee! Cool." OOPS.

Thanks for pointing it out! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Irieguy]

I'll usually type:

"The classic hold'em matchup- A-4 vs. K-9 vs. 3-3"

[CrisBrown]

Hi durron,

There was a thread about this on the Psych forum several months ago. It comes down to how a given player "builds" a read on a hand. Strong players build reads on the basis of "What hands can beat me?" Weak players build reads on the basis of "What hands can I beat?"

It goes something like this. Able raises pre-flop. Baker looks down at KQo and thinks "he's on a weak Ace." So Baker calls. Now the flop comes A-Q-6, and Able bets the pot. Baker now thinks, "he's on JJ," and raises. Able reraises, and Baker calls. The turn is A-Q-6-J, and Able pushes in. Baker thinks, "he's on 99, and I could still catch a 10 for a straight," and calls the all-in. Able turns up AA, the river blanks, and Baker curses about his "bad luck."

In short, the weak player continually readjusts his read to a hand he can beat, as an excuse to stay with a hand ... and often a hand that ought to have been mucked pre-flop.

The strong player does the exact opposite. Able raises in the CO, and Baker looks down at AA in the SB. Baker raises the pot, hoping Able will read it for a resteal and push in. Able calls. The flop is Q-9-9. Baker bets, and Able raises for about 40% of his stack. Baker takes a moment and thinks along the lines of: "Able has been stealing with a lot of suited connectors, so hands like T9s or 98s are well within his range of play, given his position. QQ also makes sense for the pre-flop action. He's willing to risk almost half his stack, but he didn't push in. That smells like a come-along bet. My AA is no good."

Baker folds and Able generously (but foolishly) shows Q9s. While Baker lost a substantial pot, he has the satisfaction of knowing he didn't pay off Able's implied odds, meaning he came away +EV on the hand.

Cris

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
i hate to say it but I did this the other day. opponent is first in on the button raises to 700, blinds are 100/200, i have A9o and call all in. doh!

Pat

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, if 700 chips makes you all in, then you are in desparation mode at 100/200 blinds.

i would think calling with a9o is ok. AM I WRONG?

This is bad?

[KJ o]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are kidding right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's making snotty comments about me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is there a difference?

[Nak]

Yes, and it also reminds you to stay out of the craziness early. Either that or you are laughing too hard to hit anything other than the "fold" button.

Nak

[durron597]

Do you have a link to the thread on the psych forum or some good keywords I can search for? I would like to read that thread.

[willie]

just had this happen

i reraised 3x from the bb with aj /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

flop comes ugly 8 high and a lag had called me. he bets 1/3rd of the pot after i check (durrrr)
turn brings a king, that filled a flush draw so i move in immediately first to act. he calls with 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

5 high! no draw!

rivers a deuce.

oh well....he made a good call /images/graemlins/smirk.gif