A couple dodgy hands that missed the flop, how are these lines?

[Joe826]

My opponent seemed decent, and not as laggy as the rest of the table. What do you think of this line? I was thinking of checking the turn and calling a river bet if no spade came but decided to bet instead.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 7 BB, won by SB.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to SB.</font>

I wasn't sure about this either:

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">4 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (6 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 6 BB, won by BB.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to BB.</font>

BTW - I know these hands technically belong in the mid-high stakes forum. I hope no one cares if I post them here.

[Bigdaddydvo]

Hand 1: Easy, easy fold preflop (only place I'd play this is CO or button raising to steal blinds)

Hand 2: If you 3-bet the flop, you need to bet the turn. Your 4th ST check induced him to bet on the river, and you couldn't call w/A high. You may also call his flop raise and fold on the turn if you don't improve.

[Michael Davis]

I disagree with your assessment of hand #2. Any possible hand that BB could have now made at least a pair, with the 5 on the turn, a straight, or a flush. This is not likely to be a river bluff.

Had the diamond not hit, you can make a case for calling the river. But hero loses this hand every time.

-Michael

[Joe826]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with your assessment of hand #2. Any possible hand that BB could have now made at least a pair, with the 5 on the turn, a straight, or a flush. This is not likely to be a river bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean my assessment? I didn't assess anything heh. I was mostly curious about the flop 3-bet and the turn check. I'm not questioning my river fold..

[Bigdaddydvo]

Mike,

I see your point. From my perspective, assuming I 3-bet, I bet the turn on the off chance he'd lay down his hand and fold to a Turn raise (probably works only about 20% of the time). The check raise on the flop tells me he has at least top pair. Therefore I'd say calling one more SB or folding on the flop is probably the best way to go. Thoughts?

[Michael Davis]

Tough spot. I think hero should definitely see the turn for one more bet. I like the threebet in general, it's going to be real tough for your opponent to do anything other than just call and check on the turn.

Betting on the turn has merit against players who might lay something down here, but I can't see too many guys laying down any piece of this garbage flop against a PF raiser.

-Michael