AQo against a large high aggression field

[pstripling]

Does anyone fold AQ offsuit against multiple raisers/callers in a 10 handed LAG game? Doesn't seem overly strong against a large field. Just looking for other opinions on this hand.

UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 3 bets, Hero (A /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif) folds???, yadda, yadda, yadda.

This is just a general question. My reasoning for folding is that even against LAG I could still be way behind or drawing very thin against a large field. Any flop that is good for me will probably set up redraws for anyone else. Any thoughts on this?

[Yeknom58]

I would fold AQo to a 3 bet like 100 percent of the time. I love my AQ versus any amount of players but I totally hate it againsts a 3 bet. If you can't see that this is a super duper easy fold you need to do some studying.

First of all there is an UTG raise. Many times I'm folding AQo to just that mattering on my position and the action. Then you have a 3 bet directly to your right so your relative position sucks.

[Michael Davis]

You should have folded even if it wasn't threebet.

-Michael

[Fnord]

If UTG and MP3 are on crack, then cackle and cap it. You have positon on them here, right?

[Oponn]

I recently got Poker Tracker and was surprised to discover that AQo is my biggest loser out of all 169 starting hands through about 5000 hands (I know, this is a small sample size, but it still indicates a potential problem). Even more surprising was that I lose more in late position than early position with this hand. I replayed all the cases where I lost money with AQ and discovered that it is a disaster to cold-call an early or middle position raise with AQo, even in a fishy LAGgy game. I seemed to run into AA, KK, QQ, and AK far too often. Sometimes I'd be against JJ, AJs, or another AQ, but you can see how badly AQo fares on average against this range of hands. AQo doesn't do particularly well in multiway pots either. Even when the preflop raiser had a hand that I was currently beating (e.g. AJ), I'd still often lose to two-pair, a straight, or a flush. In raised multiway pots, even gut-shot draws are often getting correct odds to chase.

If the raiser is a LAG who raises lots of hands in addition to the ones mentioned above (e.g. 77, A8s, et.), then you should probably go ahead and three-bet to isolate him. If you have no read or the raiser is a typical player, then I think AQo is a fold. Thus AQo is a prototypical reraise or fold hand IMO.

[Fnord]

It really depends on just how nuts they are. If every other hand is getting 3-bet pre-flop, then exactly what hand are you waiting to play? 90%+ this is a muck though.

[pstripling]

I agree with this assessment 100%. A lot of the power of AK & AQo come in the form of facing the field with calling 2 bets cold. Of course this is much easier to do in early position, so it does not surprise me that your stats show more of a win in early position. Out of curiosity, how does AKo fare position wise?

[mikeyvegas]

[ QUOTE ]
You should have folded even if it wasn't threebet.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur.

[pstripling]

typical 3/6 partypoker table. 2 maniacs. 2 LAG. 1 weak/tight. 2 clueless. 3 average/above average.

5-6 see most flops. every other hand has one raise, every 3rd hand has a 3 bet/cap preflop.

Just because some people are maniacs/clueless/etc... doesn't mean they can't get AA-QQ or AK every now and then.

[Michael Davis]

The player had bad results from late position because he was coldcalling raises with AQ. This is a deathtrap.

Normal, regular play should results in better numbers for all hands from later position. If you are making more early than late, something is wrong with your play.

-Michael

[Oponn]

I'm winning with AKo in every position, and winning more in late position than early position. This is really not that surprising. When you reraise with AKo, there are only two hands to worry about: AA and KK. Chances are you have the raiser beat, and every cold-call behind you makes you tons of money (e.g. fools cold-calling with AQo /images/graemlins/crazy.gif). I'll take my chances and three-bet almost every time.

Contrast this with AQ, where you have to worry about AA, KK, QQ, and AK - there are so many more combinations that screw you. AKo is a MUCH better hand than AQo, and will win more than it's share in any game type.

FWIW, SSH says to fold AQ (because of domination) and reraise AK if someone raises in front of you. I wish I had taken Ed Miller's advice to heart before I spewed so many chips... /images/graemlins/frown.gif