J10 ----off or suited

[Don Olney]

I down loaded Howard L. starting hand selection --- I see no mention of J10 ---- All the other charts I look at have J10 on the chart---- any idea why Howrd does not have it -----

[FrankLu99]

Often, manufacturers of a product dont want to include every feature for that product. This way the customer is inclined to buy the sequel, the next product. Try waiting a few months for Lederer's next file, "More starting hand selection." I am guessing your download for "starting hand selection" was free. Get ready to take out that CC

[jollymon]

Curious... Where did you go to download the chart??

[DemonDeac Holding Rockets]

Probably J10 aint that great of a hand unless there are 5 or less players. ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT SUITED!!! rags, it can only get u into trouble

[mrjetguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Probably J10 aint that great of a hand unless there are 5 or less players. ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT SUITED!!! rags, it can only get u into trouble

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I mean you are almost always screwed if you get a straight with JT... right? Just because it will always be the nut straight...

[Richard Berg]

(1) not if there are 4 straight cards on the board

(2) the same is true of QJ, which is not exactly a monster either, so what's the point?

[nickpepper]

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[ QUOTE ]
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[/ QUOTE ]

You sir, have answered all my questions about JT.

[Avatar of Wine]

[ QUOTE ]
(1) not if there are 4 straight cards on the board

(2) the same is true of QJ, which is not exactly a monster either, so what's the point?

[/ QUOTE ]

While it's not exactly a 'monster' as you put it, it's a solid drawing hand - and the difference (at least w/ straights) b/w it and QJ is that JT can drawn to all 5 straights up and down (QJ only has 4). While not a huge difference, it is statistically significant . . .

[stinkypete]

which 5?

[ghostface]

789TJ, 89TJQ, 9TJQK, TJQKA are the only straights JT will make

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
not if there are 4 straight cards on the board


[/ QUOTE ]

Which 4? no matter what the board is, if J10 makes a straight it always uses both cards and its always the nut straight.

[tpj]

Board: J 9 8 7 x

opponent Q T

tpj

[TM1212]

[ QUOTE ]
Board: J 9 8 7 x

opponent Q T

tpj

[/ QUOTE ]
TPJ by saying JT only makes the nut striaght they were assumeing you would use both cards.

JTs is a "monster" (defination of a monster pending) especially in a 10 person ring game.
Whoever said that J10 is rags except in a 5 person game clearly doesn't understand the pot odds required to play a suited connector and drawing to a striaght or flush draw.

Ill take J10s over AQ in a 10 person ring game any day of the week. If I flop a J or a 10, I can easily fold, because of my kicker, but if I flop an Ace with AQ, Theres no way I am laying down. Next thing you now your oppenent flips over AK and your stacks gone.
Unless you flop a powerful hand with JT, you can easily get away from it. There are plenty of other Broadway hands (ie Q10 K10, A10, QJ, QK, JQ, KJ, AQ), which are absoulte traps, but you still put those on a starting hand chart,and you still play them and probably call them monster NOT "rags". Can't wait for AA, KK, QQ, AK all the time, can you? Just don't call JT rags again!

[Lazymeatball]

AQ will win more money than JTs in the long run.

[illunious]

FWIW, after reviewing my first 120k (.5/1 Party mostly) hands in Pokertracker, JTs was my only losing suited broadway hand in EP.

[ChipLeader]

JT isnt on there for the same reason 67s isnt. YOu have to play this hand for straight value, not for pair value. If you hit the J the T is a poor kicker and vice versa. The only advantage JT has is that if it hits the ignortant end of a straight, its still the nuts, whereas when youre holding say 56 and 789 falls, your straight isnt the nuts. Preferred play with JT should be only from LP and only for 2 pair or better, in my experience (and PokerTracker rarely lies)