Brady or Manning?

[Toro]

Patriots Nation is finally united on the Brady/Bledsoe question. There were some die hard Bledsoe holdouts but finally it's just about unanimous now.

But how does Brady stack up against the best quarterbacks in the whole league. I'm decidely prejudiced but I take him over Manning.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
But how does Brady stack up against the best quarterbacks in the whole league. I'm decidely prejudiced but I take him over Manning.

[/ QUOTE ]
HAHA

Seriously though, try again, how about McNair and Peyton, after all they both were only the co-mvp's last year.

--------------------- QB rating
Steve McNair TEN 100.4
Peyton Manning IND 99.0
Daunte Culpepper MIN 96.4
Trent Green KC 92.6
Jake Plummer DEN 91.2
Brett Favre GB 90.4
Matt Hasselbeck SEA 88.8
Aaron Brooks NO 88.8
Jon Kitna CIN 87.4
Tom Brady NE 85.9

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But how does Brady stack up against the best quarterbacks in the whole league. I'm decidely prejudiced but I take him over Manning.

[/ QUOTE ]
HAHA

Seriously though, try again, how about McNair and Peyton, after all they both were only the co-mvp's last year.

--------------------- QB rating
Steve McNair TEN 100.4
Peyton Manning IND 99.0
Daunte Culpepper MIN 96.4
Trent Green KC 92.6
Jake Plummer DEN 91.2
Brett Favre GB 90.4
Matt Hasselbeck SEA 88.8
Aaron Brooks NO 88.8
Jon Kitna CIN 87.4
Tom Brady NE 85.9

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew someone would post some stats. To prove how stats distort the truth, just look at the list you provided. In all honesty, how many of the QB's on that list would you want over Brady?

[daryn]

of course you leave out the most important stat /images/graemlins/wink.gif

tom brady wins games. end of story.

[jwvdcw]

You can have your Marino; I'll take Montana.

Brady is the best QB in the league. Heres a good discussion on the topic:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?s=48a3117b141a6ff91bfa8bddb3dde5bb&showt opic=102985

[J.R.]

Peyton has a great arm and a well developed Xs and Os type mind, but is he a leader, a motivator, and a winner. Its something I have always questioned, and maybe I just don't like his personality or he has come off wrong in the interviews I seen him give, but I don't think he is worth the money nor is he one of the better quaterbacks in the league when viewed on non-statistical grounds, and he has never seemed to be the type of person his team rallys around.

He consitently seems to make crucial errors trying to do too much. It was always explained that he had to overacheive to overcome his team's poor defenses, but I don't think that argument has bore itself out in the Tony Dungy era.

Maybe its a small sample size, maybe its due to other variables or my biases but I don't think I want Peyton Manning to start for me in a big football game. OTOH, if I am down 2+ scores in the 4th quater and need a big comeback quaterback, I vote for Peyton, but I think he gambles too much and isn't clutch enough in the pressure spots to ever be truly a great winning quaterback.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
In all honesty, how many of the QB's on that list would you want over Brady?

[/ QUOTE ] I would take two for sure over Brady. Manning and McNair, and I consider everyone else in the same group, with a few near the top (Brady, Hasselbeck, Green, and Culpepper)

I am not trying to say that Brady sucks, but as of right now McNair and Manning are better. Brady could very easily become the best in the league, but I will wait till the season is over to make that decision.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In all honesty, how many of the QB's on that list would you want over Brady?

[/ QUOTE ] I would take two for sure over Brady. Manning and McNair, and I consider everyone else in the same group, with a few near the top (Brady, Hasselbeck, Green, and Culpepper)

I am not trying to say that Brady sucks, but as of right now McNair and Manning are better. Brady could very easily become the best in the league, but I will wait till the season is over to make that decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forget mcNair. Too many miles on him. It's either Brady or Manning imo.

[mikeyvegas]

[ QUOTE ]
of course you leave out the most important stat /images/graemlins/wink.gif

tom brady wins games. end of story.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the New England Defense and Offensive line pass protection wins games.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
tom brady wins games. end of story.

[/ QUOTE ] what happened to your golden boy in 2002?
McNair wins games too.

FWIW, I think McNair is the best in the league, partly because I hate Manning.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Forget mcNair. Too many miles on him. It's either Brady or Manning imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? McNair is 31. Joe Montana won a super bowl at the age of 32 and 33. Elway won at age 37 and 38.

[Uston]

You can have your Marino; I'll take Montana.

Perfect analogy.

[Uston]

No, the New England Defense and Offensive line pass protection wins games.

They (the NE defense) sure as hell didn't win last year's Super Bowl.

[Michael Davis]

I would love to have Tom Brady as my quarterback. But, this is still a team game, and the best QB isn't necessarily the one with the most wins. Talent-wise, taking Manning or McNair over Brady is a no-brainer. Culpepper is close; if he stopped turning the ball over, he would be in that class. Vick is close, too, but for a team like the Patriots, Brady is a far better choice.

Green, Plummer, Favre, Hasselbeck, Brooks, and Kitna are definitely below Brady.

I realize I have offered little analysis.

-Michael

[daryn]

2001 superbowl,

brady wins the game. vin had that money kick to "actually" win the game, but brady single handedly set that kick up with that awesome drive. the guy is always calm and collected, and just wins baby.

[Uston]

2001 was far more of a team effort, IMO. Holding that Rams' offense to 17 points on turf was just sick.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
But, this is still a team game, and the best QB isn't necessarily the one with the

[/ QUOTE ] just imagine McNair on the Pats.....

[WEASEL45]

Manning does great in the regular season, but what about big games?

[pokerjo22]

I'd take Brady over anyone. I hear he's a pretty good footballer too /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Michael Davis]

Manning played pretty well in his first two playoff games last year.

Most of the times when a player is labelled as not being able to do well in big games, it is bogus. He will probably outgrow this absurdity in a few years.

Judging a player on things like whether or not he has won a Super Bowl is stupid. I hear this all the time when someone is on the fence for the Hall of Fame. This is a team game and individuals alone cannot win. Dike Butkus damn near never made the playoffs. So what?

-Michael

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Forget mcNair. Too many miles on him. It's either Brady or Manning imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? McNair is 31. Joe Montana won a super bowl at the age of 32 and 33. Elway won at age 37 and 38.

[/ QUOTE ]

McNair gets so banged up each year that he can't even practice during the week. He's an old 31. No way I take him over Brady.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd take Brady over anyone. I hear he's a pretty good footballer too /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that all you women think about is sex?

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
McNair gets so banged up each year that he can't even practice during the week. He's an old 31. No way I take him over Brady.

[/ QUOTE ] ridiculous. McNair is probably the toughest QB in the NFL. You New Englanders have such a hard on for Brady.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
McNair gets so banged up each year that he can't even practice during the week. He's an old 31. No way I take him over Brady.

[/ QUOTE ] ridiculous. McNair is probably the toughest QB in the NFL. You New Englanders have such a hard on for Brady.

[/ QUOTE ]


i agree with this. mcnair is def. the toughest in the league.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
McNair gets so banged up each year that he can't even practice during the week. He's an old 31. No way I take him over Brady.

[/ QUOTE ] ridiculous. McNair is probably the toughest QB in the NFL. You New Englanders have such a hard on for Brady.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who's not saying he's not tough? I'm just saying that given their relative ages and the beatings McNair has already taken, I got to go with Brady. And you would have a hard on for your quarterback too if he won two Super Bowls for you in the last 3 years. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
of course you leave out the most important stat /images/graemlins/wink.gif

tom brady wins games. end of story.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the New England Defense and Offensive line pass protection wins games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the link I provided a few posts up.

That same defensive and o-line was 0-2 before Brady took over in 2001. They had lost to the 'powerhouse' NY Jets and CINCINNATTI BENGALS! In 2000, that great o and d line was 5-11.

Then Brady took over. They went 15-3 and started their dynasty....but I'm sure it was all the o and d line, right?

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But, this is still a team game, and the best QB isn't necessarily the one with the

[/ QUOTE ] just imagine McNair on the Pats.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think they would've won a single championship without imo the best QB(and perhaps player) in the league.

I'm not a Pats fan btw.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Tom Brady is simply the best quarterback in football and it isn't close.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
McNair gets so banged up each year that he can't even practice during the week. He's an old 31. No way I take him over Brady.

[/ QUOTE ] ridiculous. McNair is probably the toughest QB in the NFL. You New Englanders have such a hard on for Brady.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tough? Maybe....but hes always hurt! I'll take a QB like Manning who nevers misses a start over a QB like McNair who is always hurt, but is so tough that hes able to overcome his injuries to play in 90% of the games.

P.S. I'm talking purely about their ability to start games when I say 'I'll take Manning over him', not about who I'd take as an actual QB.....although incidentally I would probably take Manning over McNair.

[jwvdcw]

my list:

1.Brady
2.Manning
3.Vick
4.McNair
5.Pennington
6.Mcnabb
7.Favre
8.Hasselbeck
9.Culpepper
10.B Johnson(might surprise you, but hes very underrated imo)
10.

[Usul]

Two words dude, BRETT FAVRE. Toughest in the league? Yes. Toughest there ever was? Probably. Tougher than McNair? Hell yeah.

[Michael Davis]

You must be joking about the 0-2 part.

I had AA three times today and lost them all, so now I'm folding the hand every time.

-Michael

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Read the link I provided a few posts up.

That same defensive and o-line was 0-2 before Brady took over in 2001. They had lost to the 'powerhouse' NY Jets and CINCINNATTI BENGALS! In 2000, that great o and d line was 5-11.

Then Brady took over. They went 15-3 and started their dynasty....but I'm sure it was all the o and d line, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is easily the worst display of logic I have ever seen.

[BadBoyBenny]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/09/08/h2h.brady.manning/index.html

[ThaSaltCracka]

I think I have a good analogy here.
Brady=Jeter
Manning= A-Rod
McNair= Tejada

which one do you like?

[Michael Davis]

Just to point out, Peter King is a bloated jackass who knows nothing about football.

-Michael

[Edge34]

Manning's the better QB, and its not close.

Brady's had a lot of close ones happen to go his way, that's thanks to the entire TEAM, and the defense in particular. Without a solid defense, the Pats are average in every way.

Oh yeah, Brady fumbled. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

-Edge

[BadBoyBenny]

I actually posted the article because I wanted someone to say that. I wish I had an audio clip to post of Madden so I could hear the same about him.

[Michael Davis]

Actually, I have a lot more respect for Madden's knowledge of the game than King's. King is a basically a journalist who should stick to writing stories, not giving an opinion about anything. He is often so wrong on his analysis of playrs and teams it is mindboggling.

Note that I support King's side in this debate. He's still an idiot.

-Michael

[BadBoyBenny]

OK, Madden was a winning coach, he probably knows the game really well, but I see everything he says as an announcer trying to sound insightful as something blatantly obvious.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
You must be joking about the 0-2 part.

I had AA three times today and lost them all, so now I'm folding the hand every time.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

So a team that has gone 5-13 in its past 18 games, switches QBs, proceeds to go 15-3 and win the super bowl, and thats not significant???

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Read the link I provided a few posts up.

That same defensive and o-line was 0-2 before Brady took over in 2001. They had lost to the 'powerhouse' NY Jets and CINCINNATTI BENGALS! In 2000, that great o and d line was 5-11.

Then Brady took over. They went 15-3 and started their dynasty....but I'm sure it was all the o and d line, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is easily the worst display of logic I have ever seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

explain to me how it is. They were terrible, they inserted a new QB, and they were great. What is unsound about that logic?

Do you remember the 2001 season? NE was honestly considered the worst team in football. IIRC the line on their season win total was 3.5! 3.5! So don't tell me how they had some awesome defense and great coaching!

What is unsound about that?

[stationcalling]

today, as we stand here, brady is better than manning.

but.... at the end of their careers... my money would be on manning... i believe he'll have more of a "storied" career at the end of it all...

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
brady wins the game. vin had that money kick to "actually" win the game, but brady single handedly set that kick up with that awesome drive. the guy is always calm and collected, and just wins baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom Brady's record speaks for itself. He did a great job in the 2004 Super Bowl as well. Manning or Brady? I'll take Brady. What if Marvin Harrison played for the Patriots?

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
today, as we stand here, brady is better than manning.

but.... at the end of their careers... my money would be on manning... i believe he'll have more of a "storied" career at the end of it all...

[/ QUOTE ]

You're quite the optimist as he's 2 Super Bowls behind!

[stationcalling]

the glass is half full........

[Michael Davis]

Nowhere near as significant as you think.

-Michael

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
the glass is half full........

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, this is going to be quite an uphill fight for Manning. I believe that he has a huge mental hurdle to clear before he can achieve success at the highest level which is of course, winning the Super Bowl.

Firstly, he has never even made it that far. Secondly, his post season performances have not been that great as last year was the first year that he even won a post season game.

Thirdly, his team faces the prospect of having to go through the Patriots and Bellicheck who he hasn't had great success against.

And fourthly, his team broke the bank signing him. The window of opportunity is very small for the Colts because they are going to have serious salary cap problems. James and Harrison both become free agents at the end of this season.

I believe he will continue to pile up great regular season stats but like Marino, will never win a Super Bowl and Super Bowls are how the all time great quarterbacks are measured.

[Usul]

[ QUOTE ]
Super Bowls are how the all time great quarterbacks are measured.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely Trent Dilfer is a shoe-in for Canton after his storybook superbowl win in 2000.

There is no player in the league who has a better understand of the game than Peyton Manning.

[Edge34]

Hey Toro,

I know its a different position, but nobody would argue the fact that Barry Sanders was, or at least had the potential to be, one of the best RBs of all time. However, thanks to playing on a bunch of trash Lions teams, he never got to hoist the Lombardi Trophy in January.

Likewise, Manning is the better QB when in discussion with Tom Brady. Granted, Brady is a great talent, and was a helluva find for NE when they drafted him in like the 4th round out of Michigan. New England's defense has been a driving factor in both of their Super Bowl runs - else there was NO way they would have even snuck by St. Louis 3 seasons ago.

Manning's teams have lost early in the playoffs recently due to their general lack of defense. Tony Dungy comes in and brings in some role players and their defense improved. Were it not for ONE poor game by Manning, also in which the Pat defenders like Ty Law and big-time free agent signee Rodney Harrison got away with MURDER on the Colts' receivers, we might well be talking about how not only did Manning win his first playoff game, but made (and might've won?) the Super Bowl in that year.

Football is a game played with 11 players. Brady has two rings in 3 years thanks in large part to his supporting cast, not the least of which is Adam Vinatieri. I'm a little partial to kickers, actually being one myself, but if Vinatieri chokes either year, we've got a different story. Manning's the better QB even if Brady's got the rings.

-Edge

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
explain to me how it is. They were terrible, they inserted a new QB, and they were great. What is unsound about that logic?


[/ QUOTE ] in 2001 NE had the 19th best offense and the 24th best defense. 2001 was more of a fluke than anything, and to atrribute all of their successl to Brady is incredibly stupid. In 2002, with Brady "at the helm", they didn't even make the playoffs. In 2003 they has the 18th best offense and the 7th best defense, cleary it was their defense winning games for them /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Super Bowls are how the all time great quarterbacks are measured.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely Trent Dilfer is a shoe-in for Canton after his storybook superbowl win in 2000.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really have to point out how intellectually dishonest this argument is, do I?

[Michael Davis]

"Super Bowls are how the all time great quarterbacks are measured."

No.

-Michael

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
"Super Bowls are how the all time great quarterbacks are measured."

No.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill Parcels would disagree with you.

[Michael Davis]

So Tom Brady is better than Marino then? Than Jim Kelly? Warren Moon? Steve Young only won one Super Bowl as a starter. Is he equal to Jim McMahon?

It doesn't make sense to judge players on number of championships in team sports. See Karl Malone or Barry Bonds.

-Michael

[BeerMoney]

We pats fans don't really care whether or not others recognize Brady's brilliance. The thing is, if we had a chance to take any quarterback in the league, and start him in the games, we'd all take Brady, coaching staff included! Say Manning's better, but we really don't care.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
So Tom Brady is better than Marino then? Than Jim Kelly? Warren Moon? Steve Young only won one Super Bowl as a starter. Is he equal to Jim McMahon?

It doesn't make sense to judge players on number of championships in team sports. See Karl Malone or Barry Bonds.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom Brady is only in his 4th year as a starter. After all is said and done, yes, I think he will be regarded as better than Marino. And you miss my point about how the great quarterbacks are measured by their Super Bowl success or failure. I'm talking about qb's who are considered the best in the game, not the journeymen one hit wonders who happen to be on some great team like McMahon.

I'm talking about the Jim Kellys and the Dan Marinos who will always be a notch below because they couldn't achieve the ultimate in the sport.

This does not compare well this with other team sports. Quarterback is a special postion with infinitely(for empahasis) more influence over the outcome of the game than any other position on a Football team. A position player in Baseball(see Bonds) is probably the worst comparison.

Elway was in the same category as Marino until he won his Super Bowls. I don't understand why this is so hard to see. Championships are what it's all about.

You want to use Basketball. How great did we all think Michael JorDan was before the Bulls won any Championships? Certainly not at the pedestal he is now placed, perhaps the best to ever play the game. Could you say that if he never played on a team that won a Championship?

[Michael Davis]

I disagree with the idea that a quarterback is so responsible for the outcome of the game. I will agree that he is the most important player on the field and that great quarterbacks are infrequently on awful teams, but they are often on teams that realistically have a slim chance of winning the Super Bowl.

If you replace Barry Bonds with an average outfielder, the Giants would be awful. If you replace Tom Brady with an average quarterback, the Patriots would still be a playoff team.

Greatness does not equal championships. If two players are equal, the number of championships one has maybe could break the tie, but really it just means that player was on better teams. If the players are not equal, number of championships does not mean one moves a few rungs on the ladder.

We're beating this to death.

-Michael

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Likewise, Manning is the better QB when in discussion with Tom Brady.

Nobody is denying that Manning is very talented, but Brady does things Manning doesn't. He doesn't panic in the pocket, for one. Bill Walsh has likened Brady to Joe Montana.

Here are the stats that Brady has that say he's the best:

Overtime: Career record: 8-0

Posession inside 2 minutes - must score to avoid a loss: Career record: 12-1

Neither of these stats has anything to do with the Patriot's defense.

The "tuck rule" game and both super bowl wins, Brady had to put the team in position to score at the end of regulation. If he doesn't, those games are decided primarily by a coin flip.

I'm also not saying Manning won't be able to do this given the opportunity. On Thursday at least he can't really be faulted, although I contend Brady feels that rush coming and doesn't get sacked at a key time.

[tolbiny]

On Thursday at least he can't really be faulted, although I contend Brady feels that rush coming and doesn't get sacked at a key time.

I think Brady reads the blitz and tosses the ball out of bounds aswell.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

So your point is individual stats trump winning? Sounds like a Dolphins fan /images/graemlins/laugh.gif. No way Marino was better than Montana (as an example). Not even close.

[tolbiny]

So Tom Brady is better than Marino then? Than Jim Kelly? Warren Moon?

Ask me what i want to do as a fooball choach every year, same goal, win the super bowl. This year, or next year or the year after you are building toward that one goal. If you are in the super bowl and i could choose one QB to play in the game it would be Montana. Look up how many interceptions he threw in the Super bowls he started.
There would still be several others ahead of Brady but all of them won at least 1 super bowl.

The problem you seem to have is a blindness in favor of stats you can read.
Brady reads D's better than manning.
Brady Holds his team together better than manning.
Brady holds up better under pressure than manning.

Being a QB isnt just about throwing long and accurately (both of which manning does better than brady)- its about owning and leading your team, making the right ddecisions and then performing when you and your team get a shot at your final goal. Until manning takes the honors as the best player in the most important game of the season- twice- he will always be behind.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I agree, but the loss is on Edgerrin James' head.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
If you replace Tom Brady with an average quarterback, the Patriots would still be a playoff team.
-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean like Bledsoe? Let's flash back 3 years and suppose that Bledsoe doesn't take that horrendous hit and for whatever reason, Belicheck doesn't see the potential of Brady and Drew is still our starting QB.

With the above hypothetical, do I think the Pats win two Super Bowls. Not a chance. Do I think the Pats even make the playoffs. No way.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Let's flash back 3 years and suppose that Bledsoe doesn't take that horrendous hit and for whatever reason, Belicheck doesn't see the potential of Brady and Drew is still our starting QB.

I have always disagreed with this take on things. Brady had totally outplayed Bledsoe that preseason and Drew sucked in the first two games. I think Brady would've started the next game withiout the injury. But that's just a wild theory. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's flash back 3 years and suppose that Bledsoe doesn't take that horrendous hit and for whatever reason, Belicheck doesn't see the potential of Brady and Drew is still our starting QB.

I have always disagreed with this take on things. Brady had totally outplayed Bledsoe that preseason and Drew sucked in the first two games. I think Brady would've started the next game withiout the injury. But that's just a wild theory. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yes. Brady was taking over regardless of the Bledsoe injury. I was just making up a hypothertical to make a point.

[Usul]

[ QUOTE ]
Brady reads D's better than manning.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just absurd. Have you ever watched Manning play? The thing he does better than maybe any quarterback ever to play the game is read defenses. Now I'm not a Colts fan, and I'm certainly not a Pat's fan. I'm not even going to say that Manning is better than Brady, although I would certainly lean that way. But if there is one thing I can say with absolute CERTAINTY, it's that Manning reads defenses better.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Brady reads D's better than manning.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just absurd. Have you ever watched Manning play? The thing he does better than maybe any quarterback ever to play the game is read defenses. Now I'm not a Colts fan, and I'm certainly not a Pat's fan. I'm not even going to say that Manning is better than Brady, although I would certainly lean that way. But if there is one thing I can say with absolute CERTAINTY, it's that Manning reads defenses better.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's overdoing the audibles, jumping all over the place before the snap. And he sure didn't read that Patriots defense too well when he audibled right before McGinest sacked him which turned a chip shot FG into a missable one.

[NotMitch]

[ QUOTE ]
On Thursday at least he can't really be faulted, although I contend Brady feels that rush coming and doesn't get sacked at a key time.

I think Brady reads the blitz and tosses the ball out of bounds aswell.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. When someone comes untouched from your blind side you are not going to avoid it.