ATo in MP

[bisonbison]

UTG+2 is loose-passive. I haven't seen him limp-reraise before.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (7 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

[daveymck]

I assume from the action he had AK but its bizarrely played by him. There a few other potential hands out there but not that I can see three betting.

I may bet the turn here continue the agression he may fold overcards at that point but most players woudlnt so its a tough call.

River have to bet and I have to call this down.

[Alobar]

I think I would have bet the turn, he might fold overcards especially since the top card on board paired. If he c/r you can fold. and if he calls you can check behind on the river.

Ugh, I hate that he raised the river, but I think you have to call it.

[J.R.]

I think a 4 chops the pot for you most of the time and would fold on the flop as you are behind if your description of your opponent is accurate. Sure your opponent may have KK but I don't think much else other than that is probable if your read is accurate, and the frequency a loose passive opponent limp re-raises with KK and you have 7 outs is not great enough to overcome your severe disadvantage that will be the case when your opponent has AA, which I would expect the great the majority of the time if your read is right. I am also comming form the perspective that the typical party 3-6 opponent, while loose, is not passive, so this is a fairly analagous opponent whose limp-reraise says big hand to me. Loose-passives don't limp-reraise with less than big pairs in my experience.

Its true that given your opponent's passive nature there is a good chance the flop raise lets you look at the river for free, but I don't think you have enough outs to win the whole pot on average to make seeing the river for 2 small bets a worthwhile goal on this flop.

I don't like the river call, did you not have much confidence in your read/ description of your opponent? What is he check-raising with as a passive player that you beat?

The preflop play is something that can get you into trouble when overused, and its easy to overuse this type of play (speaking from personal experience flailing away against the unfoldable opponent), especially when multi-tabling. I think loose passive's limp with AJ AQ AK enough and call down with any piece of the board too frequently to make this isolation play 2 off the button very + EV, especially if you pay off river check-raises after a limp-reraise.

There is also the certainty of the read issue and the unaswered question of your reads and the certainty of your reads of the players still to act, as well as your table image, which while perhaps a lesser concern on party than in a live game, is still fairly pertinent to whether your preflop play, which is likely a marginally profitable isolation raise under ideal circumstances, is appropriate here.

[J.R.]

Bump. I am still kida unsure about this, but I think I still like my original thoughts. Raising ATo, KTo and KJo in party 3-6 games after a limper or two or three are spots where I feel confident there is profit (perhaps a bit less with KTo than the others) but tend to overplay a bit much I think.

[bisonbison]

Hmmm. Frankly, I think the preflop limp-reraise is the only thing that makes the flop play a question, since there's a likelihood of being 3-bet by any PP and any halfway decent ace (since the guy may be willing to c/r with them).

I think against a simple limper I'd probably play it the same.

[J.R.]

"I think the preflop limp-reraise is the only thing that makes the flop play a question, since there's a likelihood of being 3-bet by any PP and any halfway decent ace (since the guy may be willing to c/r with them)."

How often do loose-passive players (assuming your read was reliable) limp-reraise with any pocket pair or A halfway decent? I tend to really narrow down the limp-re-raise to AA/KK v a loose passive type.

"I think against a simple limper I'd probably play it the same."

Including the river call of the check-raise after a limp-reraise from EP by a loose passive (once again, assuming this read is reliable) player?

[bisonbison]

In the last 3 days I've been limp-reraised by AQo, 66, KK, 9To, 77 and a few others. If I was playing this hand again, I think that I would call the flop, call the turn and call the river.

Against a limper who didn't limp-reraise preflop and who bet into me on the flop I would play postflop the same.

[Evan]

I got limp-capped by A5 UTG the other day, I had AA in the BB. I lost a lot of $.

[Trix]

I would just fold the flop, normally these guys just call the preflop raise and you bet till the river. This time however he limp-reraised you...
Since you haven't seen him get out of line and you think he is generally loose-passive, I think you will be drawing to too few outs with bad implied odds.
If I for some reason think that he limp-reraise crap sometimes, then I call the flop and fold the turn. I really dont want to get 3bet on the flop here.

[Trix]

For me AT and KJ are pretty much auto raies in this spot after one loose limper, KT I probably fold here, but raise from CO.
A9s, KTs, sometimes QJs(depending how he plays post) are also good enough from MP3 imo.