Flush draw

[CT11]

I know the preflop was idiodic.

Table is VERY LAG. I see pots raised, reraised and called down 3-5 way where less than top pair wins alot along with top pair rag kicker (K2 A7 etc) winning most of the time.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 15.50 BB, between SB, Hero and UTG+1.</font>

Thanks
~CT11

[uuDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
I know the preflop was idiodic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. Calling 1 more bet in the big blind is fine with this hand, especially closing the betting. In this case, you're getting 9:1 to try to catch a favorable flop. That's plenty.

I would have raised the turn.

[CT11]

The reason for my turn call was that I figured I had the best hand and that it was unlikely that anyone was drawing to a better hand. This was early in the session and I still thought a raise would have caused some one to fold.

In retrospect I'd make the same ammount raising (most likely) or more.

This was likely the wrong time to slow play.

Thanks

~CT11

[o0mr_bill0o]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason for my turn call was that I figured I had the best hand and that it was unlikely that anyone was drawing to a better hand. This was early in the session and I still thought a raise would have caused some one to fold.

In retrospect I'd make the same ammount raising (most likely) or more.

This was likely the wrong time to slow play.

Thanks

~CT11

[/ QUOTE ]

at party .50/1 raising will chase away about .1% of the people you'll be playing. most of the time, they'll call, and you might even get a loose 3 bet out of the pf raiser

[3rdEye]

K8s isn't bad preflop in this situation. Before the flop, you're getting 9:1 if you call.

Raise the turn so as not to give free cards to 2 pair, a set, or the Ace of spades.

[cab4656]

Nobody suggests raising the flop? I nearly always raise here - maybe I'm wrong.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

you need to raise this flop to clean up your overcard outs.

[Cerril]

With four others to the turn I think that's playable for one bet, especially when it seems likely that three of them don't have above average holdings. I'd raise the flop for the same reason. It might not get rid of AsXo but then again it might. Either way you've probably got a pretty good shot at five callers along with the slim chance of improving your equity.

The one comment that stuck out was this:

[ QUOTE ]
less than top pair wins alot along with top pair rag kicker (K2 A7 etc) winning most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing to keep in mind is that the best hand of ten doesn't change because of anything but the cards. Since you tend to be only in hands where good cards improve to good hands, TPNK, high cards, MP or 3rd Pair winning just isn't going to happen. It's either going to be your hand or a better hand. That they're going too far means you're getting great odds to draw to a monster (or call down stupidity if you get bet into on the river) but it doesn't actually give you a better chance of winning a hand with any given to cards come showdown over facing random holdings.

(I say this to reinforce it to myself... it's very tempting to hold onto middle pair, top kicker with a moderately scary flop when you can so easily say to yourself that hands worse than this have been dragging pots all night).

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
you need to raise this flop to clean up your overcard outs.


[/ QUOTE ]

You really think K-10 or J-10 is folding here?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

also you want to drive out the lone A /images/graemlins/spade.gif who'll have a redraw against you if you hit on the turn.

also, you don't mind if they call two cold on the flop, but you don't neccessarily mind that they call either.

[CT11]

[ QUOTE ]
also you want to drive out the lone A /images/graemlins/spade.gif who'll have a redraw against you if you hit on the turn.

also, you don't mind if they call two cold on the flop, but you don't neccessarily mind that they call either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly this hand taught me just that. Can you guess what UTG+1 had? It was a spade--and he also won.

~CT11

[meep_42]

He wasn't going to leave, that turn raise you should have made was for value.

-d

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
He wasn't going to leave, that turn raise you should have made was for value.

-d

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless he had a piece of the flop, I don't know that he'd call two cold then. One very good reason for raising the flop.

Rob