Is this game beatable?

Hi I would like to get your opinion on whether I should bother with this game.


It a home 15-30 with $5 drop no matter what. It is usually 9 handed. Line up: 1 tough player, 1 Loose aggressive, 3 very loose- passive, 1 loose passive, 2 rockish, myself.

Games: Holdem and 7 stud hi/low. Holdem average of 5 people seeing the flop, with a prevalent mentality that if the cards are worth calling they are worth calling no matter how many raises have been put in in front of them. There is a fair amount of paying of that takes place.


Is the rake to high?

I think it is beatable. You will probably win about 3-5 pots/hr, so you will be paying $15-$25/hr to play in the game. With the lineup you described, it should be possible to win just under 1BB/hr if you are really good. The difference between this and a regular game is that small pots lose value. Also, you need to play tighter than normal. In a casino 15-30 you would probably usually be paying about $9-$15/hr in rake, but the softer than normal lineup in this game should make up some of the difference.

The game sounds quite beatable even with the rake but my question is "where does the rake go?" If it's a home game why is there such a drop. Whenever my buddies play at home we sometimes take .50 a pot to pay for beer, etc but that it about it.

For holdem, if 5 people on the average are taking a flop, then you are in a game where the players don't understand how to play and you should have a nice earn despite the high rake of $5. On the average you will win 2-3 pots per hour so your cost is about $10-$15 per hour. In a typical Vegas game at these stakes, the rake is $3 so your cost is about $6-$9 per hour. The extra $4-$6 per hour in rake you will pay will be more than made up for by the loose-passive nature of the game.

$5 drop? Wow. I thought one of the best reasons to play in home games was to avoid a rake (or at least a substantial one).


With so many loose-passive players, it sounds like a very beatable game.

Are you far from a cardroom? If you're not, why bother with this game? No security when you leave with a bunch of cash in your pocket. No security from marked cards or players colluding. Nobody to protect you from other angry players. Heck, no sexy cocktail waitresses. The drop is worse then most cardrooms. If you're far from a cardroom, host a game yourself in your house, avoid some of the problems I've listed above. Invite the same guys if you have to.


Slip

Thanks for your imput. Since the closest card room is about 6 hours away, this game and few others with the same structure are my only options. I wanted to make sure that I can make a few bucks in the long run while playing in this game. From what you guys are saying it looks good. Thanks again.

if you win 2-3 pots per hour, how does it cost you $10-15 per hour? since when you do win you are getting back all your bets plus the losers bets. The rake is surely taken from the losers bets, not yours. i have never understood the concept of the rake costing a winning player, in the sense of the money coming from his own stake. The rake costs the losing players, who pay for it as well as provide money for the winners. What the rake does do is lessen a winning players earn, since there is less money to win than if there was no rake.

Every pot you win is shorted by the rake. If you win two pots per hour and they rake $5 from each pot, then your cost to play is $10 per hour. A looser player who wins more pots, but may well lose more money, is actually paying more than his "fair share" of the rake. This is why a rake system favors the tight player. Steve Badger, who plays in California where they have a collection system, has argued that the collection system is fairer to all players since every one pays the same amount each half-hour. So in a $20-$40 game at Commerce in L.A. they collect $8 every half-hour from each player. This occurs whether the player is actually in the game or just taking a rest room break. Therefore, every player pays $16 per hour to sit in the game and there is no rake. Here in Vegas, they rake $3 from each pot in their $20-$40 game. The tighter players don't win as many pots as the looser players. A tight player who wins two pots per hour on the average is only paying $6 per hour in rake versus having to pay $16 per hour at Commerce. This extra $10 per hour makes a big difference if you play a lot of poker over the course of a year.

I think the best way to analyze this is from the point of view of the host. He is probably smart enough to jack it up just high enough to leave you with just enough looseness left over to stick around. If he is smart, he has adjusted it to exactly where you will be asking this question!


So how long has this game been going? I am sure if it starts to die, he will increase the blinds (if that is his option) and lower the rake. Then when it gets loose, people like you will start making a higher priority out of sitting more consistenly, and for longer, and he'll jack up the drop...


Or something?


El-Roi

Looks to me like your highest EV option is to host a game yourself and charge $4 per pot. No $15-30 player makes $120/hour.


Regards, Lee

"Modulo the legality, and all that other stuff."