The best lesson learned in my first 100 SNGs

[Sam T.]

Lately I've had great success picking off pretty big pots by looking for an opponent's underbet, and coming over the top.

You've seen the scenario - decent sized pot, and some guy decides he's going to take a stab at it by betting t50 into a t500 pot. Now the old me would just say, "I've got nothing." and fold. The new me says, "Betting 1/10 of the pot? That's freakin' weak. I may not have anything either, but I'm going over the top for t300." And the vast majority of the time, this sort of aggressiveness is rewarded and I take down the pot.

Obviously I don't try it every time, but I like it if I am last to act, or (even better) as a check-raise if the bettor is last to act. It also does a world of good for my table image. Do that 3-4 times and anyone paying attention will get the message - "If want to play with me, make sure you're ready to back it up with big chunk of your stack."

I'm not trying to brag here, but wanted to share what seems to be a pretty effective strategy with other newbies.

Also, I have a question for the experienced folks: Is this a good play in the long run? (Or put another way, did you read this and say, "No kidding. Everyone does this."?)

[parappa]

It is a good play, but watch out for the man that minibets at you, folds when you come over the top, then later minibets at you again...

[Sam T.]

Yes, that is a risk. It can also get ugly if a player in between is slow-playing his set of fives. /images/graemlins/blush.gif But at the $10 level, few players are strong enough to re-raise (probably all-in at this point) if they don't have me beat.

I should also point out that I DO NOT make this play if I'm short-stacked. It's good in the mid- to late-stages of a tournament when I'm in pretty good shape, and is great for building up your stack once you have the lead. In the scenario from the original post, if I've got t1600, and someone bets t50 into a t500 pot, I'm happy to raise to t400. If he comes over the top, I can fold.

[willie]

i typically only make that kind of a bet with a monster hand.

just because it tempts someone with top pair to come out swinging against my set.

i may not be the norm, but basically if i'm not willing to put a decent sized bet at a flop then i'm probably not going to bet.

[spacemonkey57]

What do you do on the turn if he calls the raise?

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
i typically only make that kind of a bet with a monster hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly the point. The min-bet (especially from late position) signals weakness. It says, "I'd like to take down the pot, but I'm not going to risk much of my stack to get it." Your bet, on the other hand signals strength, "Guess what, guys, I'm slow-playing aces or I've flopped a set. If you want to see another card, it's going to cost you." It's a pure bluff, but one that can be tough to call.

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do on the turn if he calls the raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is the problem, isn't it. In that case it comes down to a judgment call, which is a weakness in my game. Is he a calling station with a low pair, hoping to hit his set on the turn? Is he on a draw? Is he slow-playing a set? In some cases I'll fire a second barrel, but in others I'll check it down.

But in most cases, if someone is only willing to bet the minimum, they're not going to call a 4x raise that screams monster.

[Victor]

I do this a lot against weak straightforward players. Especially, if heads up on a raggedy low flop. Also, if I have a large stack and the flop is terrible I will almost always take a stab at it and make someone commit about half there stack. These situations make tournaments fun.

[ChuckNorris]

An interesting post. I am a total beginner in SNGs (I've played only 17 Party 11s) and haven't yet experimented on such aggressive plays. It'd be interesting to hear from posters with hundreds or preferably thousands of SNGs - do they agree that this is +EV?

When doing this kind of play, the matter of pot size and the size of your raise must be crucial. How do you take these two variables into account? How often do you think that you succeed in this kind of a play? If you raise to T300 to win a T550 pot, it sounds pretty good; you don't need to win the the pot even half of the time.

Also, if there's raising preflop, do you like this play more if you raised or not? I think I would give more credit to someone who calls a raise preflop and then dares to bet the flop. But if someone raises, they often autobet the flop, and that might be a great time for a raise/checkraise.

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
When doing this kind of play, the matter of pot size and the size of your raise must be crucial. How do you take these two variables into account? How often do you think that you succeed in this kind of a play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will only make this play when the pot is "worth winning", which, of course, depends on my stack, the size of the blinds, the other players and their stacks. If it's head's up between two limpers, it's not worth the risk. Take the t50, and have fun. As to the raise (or check-raise) I'll usually fire back with 6-8 times the original bet. I want it to be enough that he's uncomfortable calling, but not so much that I'm crippled if he comes over the top and I have to fold. Granted I'm working with a very small sample, but it has been enormously effective against weakish opponents at the 10+1 tables.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if there's raising preflop, do you like this play more if you raised or not? I think I would give more credit to someone who calls a raise preflop and then dares to bet the flop. But if someone raises, they often autobet the flop, and that might be a great time for a raise/checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually make this play on the flop, so in order for it to be worth the risk, there has usually been a PF raise. (And since I rarely just call a PF raise, I'm usually the raiser.) As one of the other posters noted, it is most effective on a ragged flop, and here is where the PF raise and position are key. If there's no PF raise, and the flop comes 962, you have no guarantee that the BB isn't sitting there with 92o, just waiting to check-raise all-in.

If I'm in EP, I'll check, and look for a sissy-bet from LP. If it checks around, that's fine - the flopped missed me too, and I'll take the free card. If someone bets anything much over the minimum, I'm done. The check-raise can also be effective from the blinds, again with the ragged flop. The guy who limped with AT and then min-bet from LP, doesn't know whether the flop gave you top two-pair. He folds, thinking, "Well I only lost t50." and counts himself lucky.

As you get later into tournaments, it becomes worth it to take down a pot even without the PF raise (this is especially true on Party, less so on Stars). In that case, if someone leads out with the min-bet and I'm in LP, I will fire back and hope for a fold. More risk here, but it can be worth it, especially at bubble time.

[ThaSaltCracka]

this is a good play IMO, and one that I do failry often if the table starts to become too tight and passive. Then I dive right in and take control of the table, hopefully. One key thing though, try to keep your bluff bet right along the lines with your normal bet or your normal raise bet, that way when you actually bet out with a hand, they will not know if your are bluffing or if its legit.

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a good play in the long run? (Or put another way, did you read this and say, "No kidding. Everyone does this."?)

[/ QUOTE ] No kidding, everyone does this. There are many different forms of it though. Their is just a simple steal bet, a semi-bluff or even the "gap concept". This is smart play for flops that missed you or if someone is weak in front of you, but you have to remember, don't do it to often.

I would say though, in the lower level SnG's its pretty damn effective.

[poboy]

Seems like a smart play but I'd be careful who I did that too. I'll often min-bet a pot w/ a monster hand. Hoping for someone to do exactly what you're talking about. I then smooth-call all the way to the river, where I put you all-in and force you to either fold or end your game. I like the idea though, just watch out for traps.