loosen up???

I play in a home game, 8 handed usually, omaha 8 is main game, but also hold em, seven stud (hilo, low and high) and big omaha (omaha8 with 5 instead of 4 cards). Dealer has option of setting stakes, but most pots are 15-30, 20-40, 50 the whole way, pot limit, etc. People have lost up to $2000, and won the same. Buy in is $500, and we play that you can bet and call what you don't have in front of you - in other words, not table stakes.


I had been losing over about 15 sessions (I win at other games) in spite of this being the easiest game - there are 4 complete fish (play stuff like 4-7-7-Q in omaha), a couple of aggressive but unknowledgeable players, and two decent players (however, they play holdem, and don't know omaha as well.) I analyzed my play, and decided I was being too aggressive and loose.(even though I played much tighter than the opposition) I really tightened up, and won the last two sessions despite getting awful cards.


I've read Sklansky, and he says that one should loosen up in these types of games. However, I find that I lose when I follow this advice . A lot of times I get these trap hands, and lose a bunch of money. People still pay off my hands even when I'm ultra tight.


Question: Should I loosen up???


Thanks

Jimbo,


When Sklansky says to "loosen up" this is meant to be taken "relatively." Relative in terms of correct play in tighter games. In other words, where in a tight omaha game you may elect to only play A-3-x-x in late position for one bet or not call a raise cold with A-3-x-x(suited A) in a looser game you may elect to play these hands in somewhat less favorable situations. In holdem, loosening up may mean playing certain hands in certain situations that it would be unadvisable to do in a tighter game.


In other words, it depends on how tight you tend to play in the first place. If you have found that tightening up your game has lead to better results than you were previously experiencing, chances are that you were playing too loose and that your recent adjustments have moved you more toward "correct" play; if this is true, then it would be silly for you to now "loosen up" again. In fact, you might find that if you tighten up even more that your results become even better. I'm not saying that this is a certainty, only a possibility.


Good luck, keep thinkin' and looking for better strategies,


Mike

Many solid players play "nut" Omaha and rightfully so. Many of these people not only don't win without the nuts, they CANNOT win without the nuts: they can neither bet nor call on the river with A3 low.


These players have an awful time "loosening" up more than a tiny bit since those extra hands they play tend to make 2nd nuts.


Other solid players have pretty good "table sense" and so can and do often enough win without the nuts. These people profit quite a bit from less than premium hands against loose fish.


I suspect you are in the first group. So for Omaha, you can loosen up a little but your objective is still to make the nuts. You can put a little more value in Kxs but understand that you are taking a long shot to snag your Ace.


I also suspect that the loose players are in fact outplaying you in the larger pots on later streets in the pot-limit games. I also suspect you are NOT taking your seat vis-a-vis what games the other players are calling: certainly put the pot-limit players on your left so you have position during the important hands.


But mainly I suspect the following is your problem: when you semi-bluff you presume you are beat when called since you would not call a bet without a better hand. If you presume you are beat when called with 2nd pair and therefore cannot call future bets, then you are affectively giving up the show-down equity of your hand. This is a disaster to loose fish who intuitively grasp this and are willing to bet their gut-draw on the turn because you checked your pair to them.


>> This "bet or fold" assertive mentality fails against tenacious assertive types. Golly, there has got to be a better way to say this.


- Louie

suggest you loosen up only on starting hand requirements


if you do not get good flop, get out

My experience with entrepreneurial as opposed to ring games is that they operate on a different axis.


Whereas in a ring game you are operating on the loose-tight axis, trying to stay just to the tight side of your opponent, in a home game you are operating on the fun-tight axis.


Whatever you do to become profitable, keep it fun for the fish, very fun, very random, very long-shot-win-out-erific!


Making it fun comes first, making it profitable comes second.


ku