ethics?

let me preface this by saying that I know the cardroom in question is poorly run, but I play there anyway because the games are unbelieveably good.


Anyway, it's a small local room with mostly regulars playing there. I'm sure the room has a set of rules, but, in practice, the rules are vague, since the floor has its head up its ass. Usually, though, they'll let the regulars get away with some things that may not be by the book.


One thing that happens is that verbal declarations are not, in practice, binding. one local, in particular, likes to say "bet" to see what the action will be behind him. if he gets calls that he doesn't want, he'll try to check and say that the chips weren't in the pot, so the bet wasn't valid.


I'm on the button with a draw that I'll definately call with, but wouldn't mind checking. he says "bet" and I immediately toss in my call.

here's where it gets weird. the dealer (probably in an attempt to protect me, the new face), pushes my bet back and tells me that I can't call until his bet is out there. WTF? Get your grubby hands off of my chips.


Now the ethical part. I wasn't a new player there. That particular dealer just had never seen me before. I knew what the other guy was up to, and tossed my call in early on purpose. As I noted above, it's a hand that I'd prefer checking, but that I would definately call a bet with. As such, I figured that if I could discourage a bet by calling before his chips were out there, then I'd get what I wanted. On the other hand, since I was calling anyway, if he actually did bet, then no harm no foul.


I got to thinking later, and started wondering if this could have been considered an angle, since it was premeditated deception carried out to make another player alter his actions. I then started thinking again and concluded that, since the "move" was designed to counteract a clear-cut angle, I shouldn't be too worried about the ethical dilemma.


Like I started this rambling post with, yes the floor needs help. My main question is: are angle shots ok when they're used to counteract an angle shot?

I don't see a problem with it. If the floor is not doing anything about his actions then you should try to beat him at his own game.

Well, I'm ferociously drunk right now but here's my take. If some monkey is trying to angle shoot and you are counteracting it then you are in not much of an ethical dillemma. If you care, here is what i would do- I would IMMEDIATELY speak up and say something to the effect of "Fu*k this guy, he's always saying bet, even when he doesn't bet" Then I would alert evryone at the table not to act until this guy makes a genuine action. I think angle shooting is really lame and I wish that clubs would really crack down on this madness.

Later,

Goat

Kris,


If you were drunk you wouldn't use the "*" in your message /images/smile.gif .


Regards,


Rick

I think you caught him bluffing. Take the pot.

Actually I wasn't bluffing. I had about a dozen shots of Vodka in about 2 hours and my hangover wasn't very fun. The Goat wouldn't lie about such a thing.

Oh yeah the reason I used the * thing is because Mason doesn't like profanity on this site and I used to cuss all the time on here but I quit so as not to piss him off.

I just got Rick to pay off my bet! No bluffing here :-)

of course against him its ok to do it back. but the way to get the house to see the light(get it) is to every time its your turn to act say bet and do nothing. then when someone complains say its the house rule as that guy over there does it all the time and the house okays it. then reverse it and say check and when the next guy checks say you want to bet as verbal declarations arent binding. let them try that one out. but dont do it in a spot that will make you look bad.

First, I would say "raise" and throw in my chips. It's a better tactic. Then, I would follow ray zee's (no caps) advice. Make sure to act like Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop 2 when you do either of the things ray suggests, just for empahsis. The rule should be quickly changed. Anybody who doesn't enforce the rule is lacking a fundamental understanding of poker.