River decision at Party $5/10

[joker122]

Button is a calling station. No other reads.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (7 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero ?

A better question - if you're 3bet can you fold?

[sthief09]

I think this is a really tough decision, but I think you'll see 2 pair or a pair+flush draw more than a set or 75. You beat a lot of hands, and the hands you beat have a lot more combinations than the hands that beat you. there's also a small chance that a ste won't 3-bet since your play looks a lot like JJ.

and you absolutely cannot fold to a 3-bet, because plenty of players will raise you with 2 pair or even one pair sometimes.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
and you absolutely cannot fold to a 3-bet, because plenty of players will raise you with 2 pair or even one pair sometimes.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess that question was a bit silly. But when I was playing the hand I told myself: "I can fold to a 3bet if I decide to raise." I just had a really tough time seeing someone 3betting with something worse than top 2 here, which is just plain false, especially given my preflop play looks like a steal.

[Joe826]

hey guys,

is this really that close? i'd raise here and call a 3-bet everytime given the fact that you opened from the cut-off. a turn C/R could be two-pair, top-pair, bottom-pair, or a complete bluff. I think you're ahead enough here to make a river raise profitable. maybe i've just been playin too much shorthanded. i need to sleep.

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this really that close? i'd raise here and call a 3-bet everytime given the fact that you opened from the cut-off. a turn C/R could be two-pair, top-pair, bottom-pair, or a complete bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. You're ahead so much of the time here at the river, I can't count how many times I've been check-raised on the turn with a much worse hand than top two pair from a steal position. I think not raising this river is really bad.

[sthief09]

I failed to consider the fact that it was a steal raise.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

you absolutely must raise the river and absolutely must call a 3-bet.

[bdk3clash]

Pretty straightforward river raise, and no, you can't fold to a river 3-bet.

[joker122]

I raised, he 3bet, and I was shown 66 for the flopped set. And no, I'm not being results oriented. My thinking was flawed before I saw the showdown, so there.

[Guy McSucker]

So did you fold to the 3-bet like you planned to?

Guy.

[Louie Landale]

If you don't know whether you should call or fold a river 3-bet, then don't river 2-bet marginally. It doesn't matter is someone ELSE will react confidently to the 3-bet; you obviously will not, so YOU should tend not to raise.

And I would like to say that the J was the perfect card for your hand. If you are even THINKING about folding the river than you should have tossed this one on the turn. Except if you figure Villian may semi-bluff the turn but never bluff the river.

- Louie

[joker122]

No.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't know whether you should call or fold a river 3-bet, then don't river 2-bet marginally. It doesn't matter is someone ELSE will react confidently to the 3-bet; you obviously will not, so YOU should tend not to raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this.



[ QUOTE ]
If you are even THINKING about folding the river than you should have tossed this one on the turn. Except if you figure Villian may semi-bluff the turn but never bluff the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this. The turn CR is usually 2pair, in which case I have a bunch of outs (unless he has a king).