Commerce Anecdote

[Ulysses]

So I'm playing a little no-limit at the friendly and professional Commerce Casino.

We're playing 10-20 blinds no-limit and the stacks are relatively deep, most somewhere over 5k. Some decent sums of money at stake and many multi-thousand $$$ pots.

The flop comes K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif

There's a bet and a couple of calls.

The turn is 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Flop bettor bets again. While the next guy is thinking, I say "Uh, guys?" Nothing. I double check, then point to the flop and say "Uh, anyone?" The flop bettor, a good guy and solid player I've played with a few times before looks at me strangely, wondering what the hell I'm doing in the middle of this hand I'm not involved in. I tell him to look at the board. Only then does someone else finally notice.

Good times.

[Guido]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

How can that happen? What do they do after that?

Guido

[jdl22]

Unfortunately for our hero they don't push the pot to the first person to notice.

¡Que putada!

[mikech]

So what's the rule here? Does everyone get their money back, including anyone who folded?

[Tyler Durden]

I think all turn money is refunded and the dealer puts out a new *real* turn card.

[fnurt]

I'm not saying I have any particular knowledge of the rules, but wouldn't it make sense to confirm the integrity of the deck before continuing? You might only have 51 cards left, or who knows what else.

[Duke]

That doesn't make sense. The deck was bad.

~D

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]

That doesn't make sense. The deck was bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea well. Good point.

[Zele]

Funny thing is I was just about to reply with a comment about your table etiquette when I decided to read the post a second time. As the Mexican wrestlers say, abrelos ojos.

[Filip]

[ QUOTE ]
Funny thing is I was just about to reply with a comment about your table etiquette when I decided to read the post a second time. As the Mexican wrestlers say, abrelos ojos.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean these guys:

http://www.highspots.com/arena/pic/brazos.jpg

[nolanfan34]

Is El Diablo the one in the middle, or on the left?

[Andy B]

Yes. Hopefully they get a new set-up too.

[J.A.Sucker]

Because of this,
[ QUOTE ]
We're playing 10-20 blinds no-limit and the stacks are relatively deep, most somewhere over 5k. Some decent sums of money at stake and many multi-thousand $$$ pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must ask yourself this:

How many hands had the new deck been in play? This is the relevant question.

[andyfox]

Reminds me of the time, in draw two guys both had three aces. At the showdown, the first guy says "Trip aces." The second guy lays down his three aces and says, "Yeah, with what kickers?"

I'd say about half the Commerce dealers peruse the deck perfunctorily and most of the time no players at the table do it with him/her.

Interesting how nobody else noticed. (Or pretended not to notice?) I'm guessing the flop 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif was the middle card.

[Michael Davis]

Oooo, I like this bet.

Even money, I'll take that it was not the middle card on the flop.

$100.

-Michael

[Turning Stone Pro]

not even close.

[Martin Aigner]

So who won the pot??? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[onegymrat]

Time!

[JTG51]

You must ask yourself this:

How many hands had the new deck been in play? This is the relevant question

Since the typical Commerce player averages one new setup request for every three hands played, it couldn't have been too many.

[Sponger15SB]

Is it for real that there are casinos out there where you are constantly getting new setups?? I mean I've only probably played like 150-200 hours live, but at my casino (Chumash in Central Cal) I've probably only seen a new setup called like 4x.

[Guy McSucker]

... and the bettor is really angry because he just completed his flush and his full house, having the K /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Guy.

[Ulysses]

A few comments...

We had played with this deck for well over twenty minutes. Maybe much longer.

On the board, the two matching cards were right next to each other.

Everyone in the hand was returned their money and the button stayed the same. In the words of the floorman, "that hand never happened."

[Turning Stone Pro]

much like my last marriage.

[andyfox]

I've already PMed El Diablo. He's going to retract his previous statement that they were right next to each other for a hefty commission.

Still want to make the bet?

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I just thought if they were the outer cards on the turn, or if they were next to each other, they would have been more noticeable. Shows what I know.

[Michael Davis]

Sounds like the hand happened a little too much.

-Michael

[J.A.Sucker]

[ QUOTE ]
We had played with this deck for well over twenty minutes. Maybe much longer.


[/ QUOTE ]

YIKES!!! Tell me you racked up at this point, playing deep money. At the very least, tell me you watched EVERYONE at the table VERY closely the rest of your trip. This did concern you, right? (And I'm not talking about your opponents knowing that there's an extra card) Unlike the floorman, this hand DID happen... A hold-out could really kill you in this game.

[mmcd]

Did they count the deck down/check it at the table before they put they put the new one in, or did they just bag it up?

[J.A.Sucker]

If somebody is switching out cards, the deck will have the correct number of cards. The only time the deck would be short would be the one that has long been switched out. You see the problem, right? Note that another benefit of shuffle machines is that the count the cards after each hand. This can't be a bad thing, though I suppose a cheat could bring a card from home and switch it in if he wanted.

[Sponger15SB]

Why a 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif though?

or why even stack the deck with any card at all? seems to me somebody would catch it really quick.

I mean maybe the card got in there by some crazy printing mistake or whatever, but lets just assume it didn't.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Why a 3 though?

or why even stack the deck with any card at all? seems to me somebody would catch it really quick.

[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone was cheating they'd be switching cards into their own hand, not stacking the deck. I don't know where a three would fit in, but I guess it would be safer considering it's rather conspicous.

Justin A

[slavic]

because you have to replace the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif with something

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
because you have to replace the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif with something

[/ QUOTE ]

ah ha. ok that makes sense, thank you.

[34TheTruth34]

My favorite part is how the flop bettor bets again instantly without properly considering how the second 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif has improved his hand.