Quick preflop quiz calling EP raises from the blinds

[sfer]

Hand 1: UTG+1 raises, 1 coldcall, SB (a 2+2er) 3-bets, your action with KQo in the BB?

Hand 2: LAGish UTG raises, coldcalled in 3 spots to you in the SB with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Your action?

Hand 3: Loose raising UTG raises, coldcalled in MP and from the CO-1. Folded to you in the BB with A9o. Your action?

Okay, some hypotheticals about calling EP raises in the blinds against standard, bad low-limit opposition with 2 coldcallers.

In the SB: 87s? How low for suited connectors? KJs/KTs/QJs/AJo/ATo? How low Axs, Axo, Kxs, Kxo?

In the BB: 87s? How low for suited connectors? KJs/KTs/QJs/AJo/ATo? How low Axs, Axo, Kxs, Kxo?

[afk]

1. I fold.
2. If his raises are laggish, I'll call it. Sets me up for a badass flop check-raise if I flop a flush draw.
3. I fold.

Hypotheticals:
SB - I'm fairly tight here, I think T9s might be my cutoff, but I'm open to opinions. I probably dump the offsuit hands you listed and call the suited ones. Probably call down to A9s, not sure about the offsuit Aces, about K9s (though now that I realize it, I just said I'd call K6s above, though there's one more cold caller.... so who knows..) and virtually no offsuit kings.

BB - I'm getting better odds and probably closing the action, so probably down to 67s or so here. Most suited aces and kings. Though I'm overall not sure about the offsuit aces and kings, I'd like to see some opinions on those.

[Gatts]

Great, blind defense is something I'm pretty sketchy on.

1: I muck here. KQs I'd probably call and hope for the best.

2: Call.

3: Fold. Good chance I'm dominated, maybe even 2 ways (higher ace, big pair).

SB: Suited connectors 67+ and suited broadway. Any suited ace and king.

BB: Any 2 suited.

[RustedCorpse]

FYI in hand 2 there were five cold callers with lagish BB to act behind me.

[flexus]

hand 1: fold, you are prolly dominated or destryed

hand 2: call, good odds, a bunch of people in the pot to pay a flush when it hits. [EDIT: I did not realize this was in the SB. In SB this is a fold]

hand 3: fold - a potentially dominated hand is not worth playing despite the good odds you are getting. You are bound to loose monay on this hand if an ace flops.


in the sb: KTs - yes A9s - yes AQ - yes
KQo - yes QTs - yes

in the bb: KQs-87s - yes QJs-Q9s - yes
Axo lower than AQ - big nono KQo - yes KJs-K9s - yes

[flexus]

SB: Suited connectors 67+ and suited broadway. Any suited ace and king.

BB: Any 2 suited.

Man this strikes me as incredably loose play. I especially think that you need to be from the SB. I am not sure about this though. Maybe I am too tight.

I hope someone else can either support or rip what I just said.

cheers
fx

[Cerril]

1) Fold, I'd have to hit and not get an ace to be comfortable, and even then I couldn't push hard without a scary good hand.

2) Fold. I'd barely play it anyway

3) Fold, this hand is too manyway to hold onto it.

SB: With three in I'd hold onto 87s and up, Also any two T+ suited and AJo but drop ATo. I'd play any Axs but toss ATo or lower and all Kx except KTs and better

BB: Almost identical but I might hang on to 76s, AT, and play Kxs. In the BB I'd also be inclined to reraise any suited connector 98s and up, AJs or KJs+. If the opponents are truly terrible (the sort to raise any pair and any ace, or to call a raise with any normal calling hand) then I might reraise with AJo or better knowing that if I hit my ace I've likely got far and away the best hand, probably if I hit top pair with my kicker as well.

[helpmeout]

1. Easy fold

2. Easy fold, in BB I'd call but not SB you don't get a good enough discount here.

3. Easy call, a laggish player could bet anything and A9o isn't that bad especially at a big discount.

In SB against an early raise and only 2 callers I probably would play T9s but not 87s. Any Axs and A8o,KTs K9o.

In BB 76s Axs Axo Kxs K9o

[sfer]

Like I said, make it the whole table and my play is unchanged.

[flair1239]

1. Fold
2. call
3. fold


From the BB with a raise and (2) cold callers, I would play Axs, any (2) suited cards above 10, no gap suited connectors down to 65, Would not play any off suit ace below AQ (althoug I guess sometimes I would with AJo, but that is a leak for me.), I would probably play any Kxs.
I would probably not play any offsuit kings although I would probably play KQo (maybe), but nothing lower.

[crockett]

1. Ridcously Easy fold...come on?
2. Fold
3. Easy Fold

You seem to be stressing that UTG is laggish. In all these cases I could care less about UTG being laggish. Yup, it's a good chance he is raising with crap...

It's the people calling two cold that I'm not putting these marginal hands against.

From the SB against a raise I follow along with the major authors and play only big hands. The only hands I play are QJs and KJs.

From BB is a whole different story: I'll play down to 54s and even some of the one gaps down to 86s. My standards go up as the number of cold callers go down. With just two being the on the low end.

All the broadway cards you list are easy calls (in my book) ATo if there are just a couple in the pot and I'm closing is fine. With a bunch of cold callers I'll muck it. The Axs and Kxs are easy calls for me. Kx? What's that? I'm not playing any of that crap.

[Peter Harris]

1: fold, SB has me done bad. Would cap with AKs, QQ/KK/AA.

2: call with K6s 5-way (6-way if BB calls)

3: fold?? i wouldn't call A9o with 2 cold callers in between; would expect to be well behind.

Hypotheticals:
as low as 98s, not lower in SB (i would add 87s in BB probably)
yes to KJs, KTs, QJs, AJo. Not ATo in SB, yes in BB

in SB i'd call any Axs, no Axo, no Kx s or o.
in BB i'd call any Axs, ATo, any Kxs but no Kxo below KJ.

Comments?

Regards,
Pete Harris

[kiemo]

Only hand I see as a reasonable question is 2.

Personally I fold as playing Ax/Kx suited are slow money drains for me, but a strong argument could be made for calling.

[ThunderAces]

Hand 1 fold no ?
Hand 2 fold no ?
Hand 3 FOLD
I fold all mentioned hands in the SB
My general rule is if I can't three bet I lay it down from this position. Maybe call with some mid PP.
I fold the AQo and below.
Call with 45s and above
Call the KJs, KTs, QJs and the suited aces. Fold the rest.
Also wouldn't fall in love when flopping a big pair, fear ur kicker being no good.

[InchoateHand]

Muck all three.

[ThunderAces]

[ QUOTE ]
2: call with K6s 5-way (6-way if BB calls)

[/ QUOTE ]
I think callin 2 bets cold on the button after the three cold callers is close to the same. It cost an extra half small bet, thats easily made up by the position improvement.
So thinking on these lines, what would you cold call on the button? K6s I muck.
Comments ?

[eric5148]

1 - EASY fold

2 - marginal fold, calling wouldn't be that bad

3 - fold, it's not the raiser I'm worried about, it's the coldcallers.

The hypotheticals: SB I call with suited connectors T9s or higher and KJs. If I knew the coldcallers would play any ace, I add AJo and A9s. BB I call with KJs, Axs, and AJ. If coldcallers play any ace I'll add AT.

[Trix]

1) I might muck it without the 3Bet. (fear of domination)
2) Call, he will bet about any flop prolly and you are getting 9.5:0.75 ~ 12:1
3) Muck, fear of domination.

Axs, 54s+ I call in BB after a raise and one or more coldcalls. Decent suited stuff is probably 7:1 and any2 around 9:1.
Most of the offsuit stuff I just muck.

[ThunderAces]

[ QUOTE ]
you are getting 9.5:0.75 ~ 12:1


[/ QUOTE ]
where do you get this math?
In the same situation if u r the BB with 5 other players you call getting 11:1 so 12:1 is def wrong more like 5.25:0.75 or 7:1 right? Now u play the hand any different?

[Jimbobobb]

original raiser plus 3 cold callers = 8 sb
bb = 1sb
you = .5 sb
total = 9.5sb
what you have to put in: 1.5 sb
9.5:1.5
The error came by assuming .75 SB, when it's really .75BB, which is 1.5 sb

1. Fold - honestly I don't care where the SB is from, I'd still fold
2. Call - great checkraise opportunities and position on the pfr
3. Fold - if it was folded to me I'd 3-bet, but don't like the cold callers

From BB lots of suited paint, suited connectors 45 up and one gappers, PP's, AJ, QJ, KQ, KJ - I'd probably re-raise the suited versions.

From SB: suited A's, Suited K's down to about 8, probably some suited Q's. Suited connectors/one gappers 67 and up, PP's. AJ, KQ - probably reraise the suited versions.

[kgrad5]

hand 1: fold, you are most probably dominated and its its 2 bets to call

hand 2: call, 5 handed and its only 1 and a half sb to play, nuff said

hand 3: fold, as loose as he is, theres still a very good chance you are dominated as he is UTG, what are you hoping will flop? a 9? this hand is no good, get out

[sfer]

I fold all 3.

KQo is a no brainer. A 2+2er 3-betting an EP raise from the Small Blind is not messing around. And this 2+2er had AK. How do you like your hand now?

How much value do you get from being suited? Not enough for me to want to call 1.5 SBs. K6s gets tossed.

A9o is trash. Just because UTG is a light raiser doesn't mean this hand is a light raise. I'd pick a better spot and go to war.

In the SB, I dump all suited connectors below JT. The suited Broadways I'd play and I want the BB to call along. Same with the suited aces. The offsuit B'ways and suited kings I dump.

In the BB, I'd play suited connectors down to 78. You're seeing the flip for the price equivalent of limping but in a much bigger pot and you have little fear of domination. The suited Broadways I'd play and the suited aces too. The offsuit B'ways and suited kings I dump, again. I look for excuses not to play offsuit B'ways and domination fears are plenty of reason. I rarely play suited Kings.