Where is John Murphy? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

The_Tracker

09-07-2004, 11:07 PM

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I called it! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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This was reported on several sites during the event, so you're calling it is more than unimpressive.

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Oh, well excuse me.

I didn't happen to see it so this was all news to me.

Next time I will have to dig deeper into the sleeping habits of poker players so I don't make such a fool of myself again.

Stew

09-07-2004, 11:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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I called it! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This was reported on several sites during the event, so you're calling it is more than unimpressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, well excuse me.

I didn't happen to see it so this was all news to me.

Next time I will have to dig deeper into the sleeping habits of poker players so I don't make such a fool of myself again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good idea!

krabby5

09-07-2004, 11:11 PM

"He's an idiot because he overslept?"

in that context..no..

But in this context

"He's an idiot because he overslept and had over $200,000 in chips blinded away in the biggest tourney of his life?"

...YES

MikeSmith

09-07-2004, 11:18 PM

what time did the event start, was it am or afternoon?

ohkanada

09-08-2004, 11:09 AM

Noon.

snowlarbear

09-08-2004, 11:51 AM

i like how he's a former Magic: The Gathering player. nerds, represent!

Sponger15SB

09-08-2004, 12:11 PM

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i like how he's a former Magic: The Gathering player. nerds, represent!

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Yeah, and he looks like a normal cool surfer guy. I was like aww this guys a nerd though, take off that rusty shirt you poser! Until I realized that I used to play MTG and now I surf all the time....well, I mean I DID stop playing in 6th grade though.

Texter

09-08-2004, 03:34 PM

this is all I could think of...

[ QUOTE ]
Jerry: (pause) So what happened? The snooze alarm, wasn't it?

Jean-Paul: Man, it wasn't the snooze. Most people think it was the snooze, but no, no snooze.

Jerry: AM/PM.

Jean-Paul: Man, it wasn't the AM/PM. It was the volume.

Jerry: Ah...the volume.

Jean-Paul: Yes, the volume. There was a separate knob for the radio alarm.

Jerry: Ah, separate knob.

Jean-Paul: Yes, separate knob. Why separate knob?! Why separate knob?! (frustrated)

[/ QUOTE ]

jedi

09-08-2004, 05:03 PM

According to the telecast, Matt found out where John was staying and gave him a call to wake him up. Why was he doing this? It's John Murphy's responsibility to wake up and get to the tournament on time. Even though it's day 5 or 6 and they're down to the higher end of the money, Matt shouldn't have done a thing.

Nick B.

09-08-2004, 05:10 PM

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According to the telecast, Matt found out where John was staying and gave him a call to wake him up. Why was he doing this? It's John Murphy's responsibility to wake up and get to the tournament on time. Even though it's day 5 or 6 and they're down to the higher end of the money, Matt shouldn't have done a thing.

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Matt is a great TD and very nice guy. Why would he want to see someone blow a chance at tons of money? I am sure you would appreciate it if somebody did the same for you, and I doubt the other players at his table wanted to take his money because he wasn't there.

jedi

09-08-2004, 07:37 PM

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Matt is a great TD and very nice guy. Why would he want to see someone blow a chance at tons of money? I am sure you would appreciate it if somebody did the same for you, and I doubt the other players at his table wanted to take his money because he wasn't there.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I were in the same situation as John, then I would have very much appreciated a phone call. But if none came, it would have been my fault for oversleeping. Should Matt be calling everyone in the tournament who doesn't show up after a certain amount of time? Why should day 6 be any different than day 1? Just because there's more money on the line and fewer people involved?

Matt's a very nice guy, but I still think it was out of line for him to act like John's mother in this case.

DimensionPresident

09-08-2004, 08:00 PM

Out of line? haha. Right. I think you may be able to find about zero people to agree with you that giving him a call out of courtesy to find out what's wrong is "out of line".

bolgenmod

09-09-2004, 02:30 PM

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Out of line? haha. Right. I think you may be able to find about zero people to agree with you that giving him a call out of courtesy to find out what's wrong is "out of line".

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Actually, you can find a lot of people who agree with him (that it was out of line) on RGP. (And I'm sorry that I don't know how to post a link, but the subject line was "Why did the TD call and wake up John Murphy?")

(I personally agree that calling him was the right thing to do.)

jedi

09-09-2004, 03:32 PM

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Actually, you can find a lot of people who agree with him (that it was out of line) on RGP.

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Oh geez, people on RGP agreeing with me. I'm screwed.

Not that it matters now, but yes it was a nice thing for Matt to do. I still think it benefited John over the other players. Would Matt have done this on Day 1? No. Would he have done this with other players? Maybe. Matt shouldn't influence the outcome of the tournament like this. If John wants to oversleep, watch TV, or get a hooker, that's his business. And if he just forgot to wake up, that's his problem.

DimensionPresident

09-09-2004, 03:37 PM

Then those people must be anal retentive, hate-the-world, bitter at life type people.

Given the set of circumstances, I can't even fathom how a decent human being wouldn't at least be concerned over a no-show at that point. Did the guy get shot? Kidnapped? Lying semi-lifeless somewhere after an all night bender? It's Vegas, after all. Saying that a simple phone call was "out of line" is... well, out of line.

Imagine if one of those terrible things did happen, and nothing at all was done in attempt to find him, and when questioned about that their response was "sorry, we're not his mother." Seems rather absurd.

beerbandit

09-09-2004, 03:44 PM

i do not think that the tournament diretor should have done this either. as i was watching i was wondering why that had happened.

i have no problem with another player calling him --- i would if i was there (even if i was still in the event). the td shoud have treated the situation the same throughout the tournament. if he was willing to contact players on day one of the tourney that were not at their seats-the situation would be a little different.

i know that it was murphys fault for not being there. i just dont believe that it is the job or duty of the td to check on eveyone in this fashion.

im sure that the player to john's left enjoyed all those chips for free.

cheers
beer

BarronVangorToth

09-09-2004, 03:45 PM

What could possibly have gone wrong with a 20-something kid in Las Vegas the night after he realizes that he's going to win, at minimum, $100K+ the next day and maybe even $5M...?

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)

2005

09-09-2004, 04:05 PM

Let's also take into account the fact that John Murphy is a marketing juggernaut for the WSOP(just as I would have been if I had won, or David Williams if he had) because he's 21 and seemingly intelligent. Therefore, Harrah's, ESPN, and the name of the WSOP was on the line here if he were to not show up and have a chance at winning this tournament. After all, ESPN is in this for the marketing and the money, they don't care about whether they should call John in this situation or not, they NEED him there for day 6.

Gavin Griffin

C-Dog

09-09-2004, 05:07 PM

" Why should day 6 be any different than day 1? Just because there's more money on the line and fewer people involved?"

Yes, that is exactly why it should be different. It would be great if everything was always the same. But at that point in the tourney I think a call is ok. Also, people who say "why not on Day 1" are just being assinine.

C-Dog

PITTM

09-09-2004, 05:34 PM

youre a moron, seriously, get a life. he is an idiot because he outplayed 2564 of the best poker players in the world in a ~14 hour session and then slept in?? is he insane, how could you be tired at that point?(note my sarcasm)

rj

PITTM

09-09-2004, 05:51 PM

you are flat out wrong on this one. one person out of 2576 missing is a hell of a lot different than one out of 36, when the 36th place guy ALREADY is guaranteed money that must be paid out AND he has a very realistic shot at the $5m since he was near or at the chip lead i believe. to say the TD had no business calling him is just lame, the fact that Matt Savage is such a nice guy is what makes him a great TD. I dont see anything wrong with calling the chipleader and reminding him that he is playing for 5m. Anyone who does REALLY needs to get a life.

rj

JARID

09-09-2004, 05:53 PM

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What could possibly have gone wrong with a 20-something kid in Las Vegas the night after he realizes that he's going to win, at minimum, $100K+ the next day and maybe even $5M...?

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I assume your tongue is firmly planted in cheek??

-Jarid

mikeyvegas

09-09-2004, 07:12 PM

Just cause I like to change topics... As much as I respected your play during your wsop episode, you really need to work on your website. It stinks!

DimensionPresident

09-09-2004, 08:15 PM

Yeah, that website is pretty beat.

I'll give you a great deal on a re-design. I used to do that for a living.

krabby5

09-09-2004, 08:58 PM

I'd respond, but I'm too busy getting a life..

And yes...what he did was a moronic act...

You must be a moron, too

In fact...why don't YOU get a life..

so there...

BeerMoney

09-09-2004, 09:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Let's also take into account the fact that John Murphy is a marketing juggernaut for the WSOP(just as I would have been if I had won, or David Williams if he had) because he's 21 and seemingly intelligent. Therefore, Harrah's, ESPN, and the name of the WSOP was on the line here if he were to not show up and have a chance at winning this tournament. After all, ESPN is in this for the marketing and the money, they don't care about whether they should call John in this situation or not, they NEED him there for day 6.

Gavin Griffin

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That doesn't make it fair to the other players...

That's not a strong argument.. That says why it was done, not whether or not it was fair.

Sandwich

09-09-2004, 10:19 PM

Yes he was out of line.

It was not fair to the other players.

Each player is responsible for getting to the damn game on time.

The rules provide that if you are not present, your blinds are taken in turn.

It is only fair that the same should happen to absent Murphy.

It is not fair that tourney personnel give him special treatment by "waking him up" and "reminding him" to show up.

By the way, yes, I have a life.

ThaSaltCracka

09-09-2004, 10:38 PM

HAHAHA YOUR WEBSITE [censored] STINKS.

River2Pair

09-09-2004, 11:33 PM

I actually got a call from Party Poker after missing a few rounds of blinds in the millions semifinal last year, having overslept.

It might just be standard service that is offered to customers.

DimensionPresident

09-11-2004, 12:26 AM

What if it was down to just two players. (Pretend the final round went like 500 hours and they HAD to break.) Next day only one shows up. Does anyone here think they would just simply deal and blind the other guy out until he came? Or do you think the more realistic thing would be to try to find out where the other guy was? This is ridiculous.

Gramps

09-11-2004, 03:52 AM

Seinfeld pretty much covered it all, didn't it? Amazing.

Maybe the real reason Raymer refused to shake Matusow's hand is because he was in the can with him eariler, and saw the Mouth walk out of the sh-tter and leave without washing his hands first...(ala Pappy).

lolita16

09-11-2004, 10:52 AM

Okay, ya'll may accuse me of being too much of a girl here, but I think the very real chance exists that Matt was truly worried that something might have happened to him. John is 21 years old after all. The very real, real world in Vegas is that players do get rolled for their money.

Listen to Doyle's comments about the number of times he has been robbed. Yes, I realize he played many early games in some pretty seedy spots, but the last time he was robbed was only a few years ago after winning an event (I think it was 2 to 7) at the world series.

How would you feel if you were Matt Savage and you found out later that the kid died in his hotel room from wounds sustained in a robbery at say 2pm that day?

I think when cut throat poker wins out over concerns for basic safety, we have lost our humanity.

Regards-

Zetack

09-11-2004, 03:08 PM

The TD obviously had no obligation to call John Murphy, but he certainly wasn't out of line to do so.

Imagine the finals of the US Open tennis. Twenty minutes to start, one of the players hasn't shown up. Do you think there's a chance in the world the Tourney folks aren't frantically calling the missing player, sending him a car, doing whatever they can to get him there?

Sure, there's no obligation to call Murphy. But doing so was a classy thing to do.

--Zetack

2005

09-12-2004, 06:16 PM

yeah, I know, some guy did it for me and then asked for my info then never added to it, it was free though.

Gavin

Punker

09-12-2004, 07:15 PM

How far should it extend? Someone raises and Murphy looks at his cards tiredely...reads A4o when in fact he has AA. Well! We wouldn't want him to make a mistake and cost himself $5M...should Matt Savage come over and tell him not to fold? If you think there is any difference between this and what he did...you are wrong. The TD took something entirely within the player's realm of responsibility and assisted him with it, and in doing so, greatly enhanced his chances of winning, to the DIRECT detriment of the other players in the tournament.

If I had been on the table watching that big stack slowly dissipate to myself and my tablemates, I would have been extremely angry with the TD for phoning him.

Spook

09-12-2004, 09:51 PM

his blinds were taken in turn, seems to be following the rules to me. I don't know where in the rules it says that the TD can't contact a player.

There are rules regarding one player to a hand so that is a straw man.

37offsuit

09-13-2004, 08:59 AM

I think you're being results oriented. If the kid was dying in his hotel room and the TD's call saved his life, you'd be saying the TD made a good read.

TakeMeToTheRiver

09-13-2004, 11:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How far should it extend? Someone raises and Murphy looks at his cards tiredely...reads A4o when in fact he has AA. Well! We wouldn't want him to make a mistake and cost himself $5M...should Matt Savage come over and tell him not to fold? If you think there is any difference between this and what he did...you are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't see the difference between checking on a missing player late in a multi-day tournament and telling a player how to play his cards, you are delusional.

fnurt

09-13-2004, 11:27 AM

As long as the TD would have done the same thing no matter who the missing player was, it was a good judgment call IMO. Comparing a wake-up call to advising a player on how to play his hand is a bit disconnected from reality.

When I have played in big-money backgammon tournaments, the TD's practice has always been to try and locate missing players. I've never heard anyone complain about it.

benfranklin

09-13-2004, 01:11 PM

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As long as the TD would have done the same thing no matter who the missing player was, it was a good judgment call IMO.

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He obvious didn't apply this equally. There was no attempt to find out where Phil Hellmuth was when he didn't show up on time for the start of the tournament. Phil may have been in his hotel room practising his excuses for losing in front of the mirror, and bored himself into a coma.

Punker

09-13-2004, 01:46 PM

Really? How is it different? Explain it to this delusional person in simple terms. Showing up is the player's responsibility, not the TDs, and the same goes for playing your hand.

Spook

09-13-2004, 02:02 PM

ok, so find the poker rule that says the TD can't call the player.

I can show you the rule that states 'One player to a hand'.

In regards to another poster, how do we know Phil wasn't called?

TakeMeToTheRiver

09-13-2004, 02:19 PM

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Really? How is it different? Explain it to this delusional person in simple terms. Showing up is the player's responsibility, not the TDs, and the same goes for playing your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK --

First the logic -- we are playing cards. Having someone help you make a decision with respect to your cards is cheating. This is not a race to the table. A better analogy to the wake up call is this:

A player fails to return to the table at the end of the break and the cards are in the air. The tournament director sees the missing player talking with friends with his back to the tournament. He walks over and says "John, we started again."

There is no problem with that.

Second, the "legal" - There is a specific written rule that states that only the player can play his cards and no one else can consult with him during a hand. No one can point to a written rule that says that tournament director cannot attempt to locate a missing player.

Third, the "ethical" - if there is the slightest concern for the missing player's well being, the tournament director (and anyone else) is obliged to find him and make sure he is ok. Unless the player misreading his cards is doing so because he is having a seizure, the TD has no ethical reason to step in. And if he does step in, it is to help the player and he would not assist him in the hand.

beerbandit

09-13-2004, 03:16 PM

im unsure of the exact series of events and maybe i made assumptions in my original post.

i have no problem with a player being contacted when they have not shown. but i do not think that it is the duty of the td to make this decision and follow through with it. if another player had requested that he be contacted and they knew where he staying--that situation would be different. sure the td is a nice guy for helping one of the players---maybe im just unsure of the td's exact duties.

just beacuse the players were in the money should have no bearing on whether the should be loacted or not.

if i was john of course i would have appreciated a call if i accidentally overslept. i could not blame anyonw but myself if i was not contacted either.

cheers
beer

fnurt

09-13-2004, 04:07 PM

It's a different situation when you have thousands of players at the very start of the tournament. I'm just saying, if he called Murphy because they're friends or something, that would be wrong. If he would have called anyone who failed to show up, in that particular situation, then I don't think it's favoritism.

TakeMeToTheRiver

09-13-2004, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As long as the TD would have done the same thing no matter who the missing player was, it was a good judgment call IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

He obvious didn't apply this equally. There was no attempt to find out where Phil Hellmuth was when he didn't show up on time for the start of the tournament. Phil may have been in his hotel room practising his excuses for losing in front of the mirror, and bored himself into a coma.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many reasons why there is a difference. Primary two:

(1) Hellmuth is known for missing the first couple of rounds of big events.

(2) At the beginning of the competition there were 2600 players. At the point he called Murphy there were 28 (or something like that).

Sadat X

09-13-2004, 11:45 PM

City College kids...

Punker

09-13-2004, 11:53 PM

"I can show you the rule that states 'One player to a hand'."

Telling someone "Wake up and stop folding every hand" doesn't constitute a violation of that rule? I think it does.

The ethical business has no bearing. Murphy showed his ID, he's an adult. It's not your job to take care of him just because he entered your poker tournament.

DimensionPresident

09-14-2004, 04:01 AM

There's always that one super dense person on the message board who is so freaking disconnected from reality you have a hard time believing he is actually being serious as you cannot think that any normal human being would be that spaced out.

No one is saying that it's the TDs JOB to find missing players. He did so out of genuine concern and he was well within the rules to do so. He was also in the right morally and ethically.

Stop being such a block head and let this sink in before you start typing again.

If you want to be such an anal retentive jack ass, I can play that way too. In doing so, I advise you to refrain from making the mistake of typing things such as "Telling someone 'Wake up and stop folding every hand", as it implies there was an intended and voluntary action on John's part. Obviously there was not since it's a little hard to take an active part in a hand when you're SLEEPING.

A correct way to say it would be "Wake up because your hands are being folded for you". Again, if you cannot differentiate that between the "one player to a hand" rule, you have serious problems. In that case, the TD is simply stating a fact that everyone else in a conscious state is already aware of. John's hands are being folded. This is not a secret.

By your atrocious interpretation of that rule, that would mean that even if it was John's Mom who called him to wake him up, that would also be a violation. Can you even imagine how ridiculous THAT would be? Yeah, John gets disqualified from the tournament because his Mom called to see where he was since his hands were being folded, but that violated the "one player per hand" rule.

Dense, man. Dense.

emp1346

09-14-2004, 06:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Many reasons why there is a difference. Primary two:

(1) Hellmuth is known for missing the first couple of rounds of big events.

(2) At the beginning of the competition there were 2600 players. At the point he called Murphy there were 28 (or something like that).

[/ QUOTE ]

(3) Everyone hopes deep down that Phil DID lapse into a self-induced coma.

As for the real point of the thread, I concur with the sensible people. Put yourself in the TD's spot. You've got a young kid who's kicking ass in a tournament and just doesn't show up. As the TD, and as someone who's been assigned to overlook the event and the well-being of its players, I almost think the TD would be OBLIGATED to try and contact the missing player.

Unless it's Phil, of course. Let him lose.