Opening Hands (Huchison)

[KenProspero]

Has anyone any experience/thoughts about using Hutchison point count in low stakes games as a beginner.

System explained: http://erh2.homestead.com/hem.html

It's main advantage is that it's MUCH easier to remember than the tables from Sklansky and/or Jones.

It appears to be more conservative (i.e., fewer hands) than the above tables, and many the hands it eliminates the kind of middling drawing hands that are difficult for newer players (or at least this newer player) to successfully handle.

Also, if you compare this to the other tables, you can fairly easily modify the system to add more hands.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any thoughts or comments from anyone who has experience with this.

[top-spin]

I'm a beginner, too. I've found that the #1 thing a beginner can do is to make an intelligent decision as to be in a hand or not. Limiting preflop selection to premium hands is the best way to improve your game right off. Also, the flop will determine if you should stay in. JJ in the pocket doesnt look very good when an AK comes on the flop and there's a lot of betting. Muck your jacks.

After a while, you can loosen up and play weaker hands when you weigh the following variables:

-The later position you have the weaker the hands you can play.

-The table dynamics, tight players scare off more easily than loose players

-How much the bets are relative to the size of the pot (pot odds).

-How many people are in the hand, the more there are the worse it is for you.

Once you've gotten some confidence w/the premium hands and paid attention to some of the other more experienced players, you can loosen up a little while paying attention to the many factors that influence your decision to call, bet or raise. But again primarily, always deciding to be in the hand or not in EVERY betting round. Try to limit your decisions to the action on every betting round, not how much you have in the pot already. One of the best things for me was to decide that once I put money in the pot, it belongs to the pot, not me. Someone could be holding trash that just turned into the nuts on the river. Guys w/huge chipstacks have the luxury of playing trash, and yeah, they can get lucky. you'll build your chipstack playing smart, not depending on luck or chasing draws.

Here are some tips, no matter what you're holding, if you're drawing, will you be able to get the nuts if you make your hand?

Remember that if you can't beat an opponent with just your hole cards, chances arent very good you're going to beat him at all one the other 5 cards are dealt out.

Can your hole cards withstand a raise if you decide to give action? If not, then dont waste the bet.

Are you using BOTH of your cards to make your best hand?

3 Suits on board usually mean a flush is around. Do you have the BEST flush?

Pairs on board usually mean a Full House is around. Do you have the BEST full?

A lot of sequential cards means a straight is around. Do you have the higher straight by using your cards? The lower straight usually loses. The nut straight would need two sequentially higher cards than those on board. If you have them and there's no pairs or suits, you're in great shape.

As a beginner, I may not be giving you the best advice. But I really believe pre-flop selection and all the while trying to understand the other many factors in being in the hand at all will put you in better shape than playing anything and praying for a miracle.

There are also plenty of books to read up on. I'm sure you'll get a lot of advice on which books if you ask.

[skibum]

If you were already on your way to the casino, and had only one hour to teach someone that was determined to gamble how to play, that would be a good method. Maybe even excellent. Post flop strategy would be fit or fold, and WALLAH! Another hold'em player. I think they could actually hold their own. Interesting.
Cheers

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
WALLAH!

[/ QUOTE ]

Voila! (with a ` accent but i can't get that to work today)

Yeah, i'm a nerd.....

[Rudbaeck]

I personally never bothered. For my first few sessions I kept a printout of a condensed start hand chart based on WLLH, then I decided that I wanted to know WHY I was supposed to play hands. If I know WHY I found it alot easier to remember. But once I knew why I didn't need to memorize and tables, as I can figure out if a hand is playable or not.

So learning WHY is the best thing you can do. And it's very simple compared to all post flop strategy. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[skibum]

It must be true about this here internet thing gwone all the way over yonder in France. Voila! Just like that I stand corrected from across the pond! /images/graemlins/grin.gif Is your name Luke? That guy I see on le TV? From yonder?

I honestly couldn't remember how to spell it, so I just hacked it out phoneckally, which is like keyboard ebonics minus some webe's, but I digress. Y'all keep me on my toes now, ya' hear?

Cheers

[daveymck]

I think it might be a touch too tight for example you would not be able to play 78s from late position with lots of limpers.

The only way to learn how to play these middling draws is to play them and make mistakes and learn from them.

I would suggest getting SSH and using the tight chart in there.

The problem with any chart or points system is that it is rigid for example a chart might say play 86s from the button, but this might not be correct if there are no other limpers before you.

As long as you play very tight in early positions and look to play most PP's and suited connectors from later positions after a number of callers you cant go far wrong. I would avoid playing unsuited connectors eg 89o etc.

Preflop is pretty subjective as long as you stay around the vip 15-20% you are probably selecting fine its how you play the flop and beyond that dictates your win rates.

[KenProspero]

In some cases, it's more than a touch too tight. For example, you'd never play any pair lower than 88 in ANY position.

However, I'm finding it's easy to modify and add hands like middle and low hands or suited connectors.

I guess I'm beginning to feel it's a useful tool. It gives you a good base of hands to get started with. As you get comfortable with post flop playing on other kinds of hands, you probably know what to add on your own.

[M50Paul]

I thought the method of remembering was prety good. It is a shade tighter than Lee Jones' charts but not too much so. You would not be able to play some of the Ax suited crads in late psotion, I think A5 4 and 6 suited for example. There are a few others in the Kx suited family that you would play over Ax suited which is odd to me but.... I think it is a little too tight but not that bad... so you play a few less hands. I think it could be "helpfull" as a start.

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought the method of remembering was prety good. It is a shade tighter than Lee Jones' charts but not too much so. You would not be able to play some of the Ax suited crads in late psotion, I think A5 4 and 6 suited for example. There are a few others in the Kx suited family that you would play over Ax suited which is odd to me but.... I think it is a little too tight but not that bad... so you play a few less hands. I think it could be "helpfull" as a start.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would suggest you play the Axs hands over the Kxs ones, I think the Kx hands early on were the ones that I had most problems with when I played the Lee Jones way.

[KenProspero]

Your advice on using the tight chart in SSH, as well as the advice in this thread about learning how to play certain hands by making my mistakes and paying the price is undoubtedly correct.

However, rightly or wrongly, I'm taking a slightly different tack in my development.

After reading SSH, I completely screwed up my game. Basically, I decided I was doing too much, too quickly, and trying to play from the examples rather than learning and understanding the concepts.

Now here's the problem, the charts in SSH (and Lee Jones) both assume that you understand the play concepts described elsewhere in the book.

So, unless people think I'm really crazy (and maybe even then), what I'm thinking of is starting with a very basic/tight system for pre-flop. Then adding hands slowly as I understand the principals and concepts.

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
Your advice on using the tight chart in SSH, as well as the advice in this thread about learning how to play certain hands by making my mistakes and paying the price is undoubtedly correct.

However, rightly or wrongly, I'm taking a slightly different tack in my development.

After reading SSH, I completely screwed up my game. Basically, I decided I was doing too much, too quickly, and trying to play from the examples rather than learning and understanding the concepts.

Now here's the problem, the charts in SSH (and Lee Jones) both assume that you understand the play concepts described elsewhere in the book.

So, unless people think I'm really crazy (and maybe even then), what I'm thinking of is starting with a very basic/tight system for pre-flop. Then adding hands slowly as I understand the principals and concepts.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds a good pricipal, think about multitabling (if you are not already) if playing ultra tight can play more than one table to help get the xperience quicker.

Do a search on here for abduls art of sucking out site he has some decent startng tables thats are tighter than the others but gives some advise on when to play some of the more looser hands than the others, he also has some other good advise on there as well.

[daveymck]

Found it

http://www.posev.com/poker/holdem/strategy/index.html

[KenProspero]

Thanks!!

Looks interesting.

[MrHorace]

top-spin ,
Thanks for the excellent outline of the importance of only playing quality hands as a beginner. I've been playing 11 months, 2/4 in B&M, and while I'm making progress, and learning, I'm losing more than winning.
I've taken a very critical look at this over the past few days, and realize that I've been trying to play like the more advanced players in these forums. This has caused me a lot of trouble, particularly in post-flop play.

So, I acknowledge that I am a beginner, and should play like one (Of course w/lots more experience, and better skills/knowledge). Today I went through the beginner/intermediate tables in Hilger's Internet Texas Hold-em , wrote them all down, and then highlighted those hands that I feel comfortable playing right now. When I get these down pat, I'll add in the other hands. Of course, I'll be 'watching the grass grow' a lot, but it will make me a better player.

Others may want to try this tactic.

[MrHorace]

Davey, isn't it better to be a bit tight until you get more experience, and then expand the hands accordingly. I've realized that I'm just a beginner, even after playing 11 months $2/4 in B&M, and have lost money because I've been playing too many hands.

That being said, I do like your comment that the only way to learn is to make mistakes. /images/graemlins/smile.gif But for me right now I want to get confidence in winning. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MrHorace]

Ken,
I'm with you! I had the same experiences and have decided to take the same approach as you.

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
Davey, isn't it better to be a bit tight until you get more experience, and then expand the hands accordingly. I've realized that I'm just a beginner, even after playing 11 months $2/4 in B&M, and have lost money because I've been playing too many hands.

That being said, I do like your comment that the only way to learn is to make mistakes. /images/graemlins/smile.gif But for me right now I want to get confidence in winning. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I clarified that playing tight is good early on in your career, for the record I am at around 15-17% VPIP but I will play suited connectors and 2 gaps where appropriate.

Generally those playing too many hands will be playing 25% plus (some up to 80-90%). These players are generally playing hands from every position regardless. If you are playing loose games eg .5/1 or low limit live playing any suited connector from the button or one from it in an unraise pot with 3-4 limpers then it is not a mistake.

Same with PP's even low ones from mid to late position even if raised behind you it isnt a mistake, as long as you go for the no set no bet principal and play fast when you hit your trips.

I think that confidance is more the key, initially play the hands you are happy with you are much better off being too tight than too loose, particulary if your postflop play is not good and diciplined.

[MrHorace]

[ QUOTE ]
Same with PP's even low ones from mid to late position even if raised behind you it isnt a mistake, as long as you go for the no set no bet principal and play fast when you hit your trips.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the key isn't it? Thinking about it the last few days I realized I haven't stuck to the no set no bet principal, and have gotten sucked into playing straight draws, etc. Okay w/big cards, but NOT medium PP's.

I'll stick to my originally stated plan though until 1: I gain confidence and 2: My post flop play improves. Thanks for the suggestions.

David