T3s from SB - comments please

[theghost]

How much faith should I be putting in this T/images/graemlins/club.gif?



Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls, Hero completes, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP1 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (16 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 16 BB

[radek2166]

Bet the river.

[topspin]

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Bet the river.

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Why bet the river unless you also advise capping the turn? The 2/images/graemlins/club.gif can only have devalued your hand.

[Cerril]

Unless I've got the top two of the suit I'll always check/call a fourth (or fifth) of that suit in EP.

I don't have SSH, but I couldn't even imagine playing ATSWD even on the SB. You have only one way to win (flushes, those TT3 boards don't count) and that isn't enough to give up half a bet, to me.

By the way, I would have absolutely capped the turn except for the boat possibility. With the bet and the raise in front of me I'm honestly not sure, sitting there, that I'd have stayed in to the turn. It's not that 2 into 12 isn't good odds to justify chasing, it's more that I'd give a fair amount of credit to a high club or more being out there (definitely justifying removing one or two outs for two players), or a queen (which means they're almost as likely to fill up as I am to hit the flush).

Of course once MP1 checks the river, I'd be cheering.

[afk]

Bet the flop. Your turn check-raise is no good, you want to get money in the pot, not make BB call two cold - bet the turn and hope to get raised so you can reraise. It worked this time in that he called you, but the bet isn't expected to come from the right place for this c/r to be appropriate in most situations. I think I'd still probably bet the river too.

edit: Cap the turn too.
edit 2: better yet, this would be a good chance to try and check-raise the flop for value, unfortunatly it got raised behind you and you lost a caller though.

[theghost]

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I don't have SSH, but I couldn't even imagine playing ATSWD even on the SB. You have only one way to win (flushes, those TT3 boards don't count) and that isn't enough to give up half a bet, to me.

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Yeah - SSH advocates playing any 2 suited from the SB. As far as the T3s, you can win with trips, 2 pair, boats, occaisonally TPNK might even hold up if there's a T on the board - I'm not saying any of these are likely, but you don't need to flop a boat to win the pot.

You could probably either fold or throw in the 1/2 bet and have similar longterm results.



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I'd give a fair amount of credit to a high club or more being out there (definitely justifying removing one or two outs for two players)

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Why? What in particular makes you think there is a high club out?



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or a queen (which means they're almost as likely to fill up as I am to hit the flush).

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If we are both as likely, we are both correct to stay in the hand, no?

[Fnord]

Fold pre-flop when it's 1 SB back to you. Flop play is fine, as the BB is the expected bettor and you don't want to kill your action nor pump up a ten-kicker flush draw on a paired board.

[theghost]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop. Your turn check-raise is no good, you want to get money in the pot, not make BB call two cold - bet the turn and hope to get raised so you can reraise. It worked this time in that he called you, but the bet isn't expected to come from the right place for this c/r to be appropriate in most situations. I think I'd still probably bet the river too.

edit: Cap the turn too.
edit 2: better yet, this would be a good chance to try and check-raise the flop for value, unfortunatly it got raised behind you and you lost a caller though.

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My logic:
It crossed my mind to bet the flop for value, but I felt that a ten high flush on a paired board might be a bit weak for that move.

The turn c/r was a bit spastic, I agree. Again, capping seemed too bold for what I held at the time (perhaps a weak thought). Same on the river.