"It's all about money management."

Hello all,


When to quit should not affect your overall result, as long as you always play in a good game. What I mean by a good game is the game that you expect to make money in the long run.


Personally, I quit when I'm tired too, even if the game is good. The reason is I don't like to play tired, and the game is almost always good here in Chicago (Hollywood Casino,) so I can always come back fresh the next day and play in a good game. Plus, I always forget to bring toothpicks to prop up my eyelids :-)


This should be the end of the story, but there're some people who believe that you can make a lot more money by quiting at the right time. They say you shouldn't go home when you're stuck, and when you get back your money, you should leave. They say you should go home when you lost part of your winning. They say always leave at the "peak" of the day.


Well, if losing players or break even players are saying this, I wouldn't care. But the thing is some (but not all) of the best & smart players in Chicago land believe in money management. They even say money management is one of the most important things in poker.


Do any of you use money management to decide when to quit?


Soh

well, this touches on bankroll issues for me. i don't really have one. ( i haven't saved up, and i spend my winnings) so i basically bring what i can afford to lose to the table, and no more. if that is 75 bucks, then thats it. if it is 250 dollars, then i bring $250. if i lose it all, thats it, no more. if i am winning, i keep playing. i usually plan on a certain amount of time to play, and usually have somewhere else to be eventually, so i can't really play 'too long'. i play at the hollywood too, now that im back in chicago. id like to meet you sometime. i haven't been there in a couple weeks, but i usually play on weekends, and ill probably be there saturday.

"They say you shouldn't go home when you're stuck, and when you get back your money, you should leave."


That's something I do backwards. I'm far more likely to quit stuck because I'm stuck, than quit winner because I'm winner. My session win/loss ratio is probably not much higher than 1/1. If I break even after, say, four sessions, it's more likely that I won once and lost three times than the other way around. Funny thing is, I used to do it exactly the other way around! Three dinky wins, one big loss.


"They say you should go home when you lost part of your winning."


I think of that more like emotion-management than money management, and I think it has tremendous merit, depending on how much a win or loss will effect a person's capacity for joy after the session. An example: If I'm going on vacation tomorrow and I'm up two racks and later find myself up one rack, sure, I'll quit, simply to avoid the risk of carrying the yucky feeling of blowing back a good win right before party time.


Tommy

Tommy


You might be right in regards to emotional management.For the longest time when playing if i got stuck in a 10-20 game let say $500 and got it back after playing 5-8 hours and hung around i wound up giving it back,which was brutal emotionally.I discovered i was better off after getting back my money to get up and go. It improved my results dramatically.Of course how do you know?My rule of thumb is when you get your money back and you get that "Feeling" that you don't want to lose it back and you become defensive it's time to go.Because defensive poker is losing poker.


When winning if i get up $500 and i start giving money back or take some bad beats it might be time to go. There are no hard and fast rules on when to leave when your a winner but you certaintly don't want to give back a $600 win.I think the whole idea is to try and leave before the next downswing occurs.Poker is a very streaky game and if you can somehow take advantage of those streaks your going to be a lot better off in the long run.


Most of the good players that i play against have adopted this formula and seem to have been quite succesfulat at it.I guess what i'm saying is you need to learn to play your rushes correctly whether good or bad. As promised Master Soh i have responded to your post. Lar

First off, how do you know when your "peak" for the day is? There is no such thing. No way to know, but most importantly IT DOESN'T MATTER!

Anybody that thinks that money management has to do with beating poker is totally wrong. It's an open and shut case, money management is total bull sh!t. Learn to play well, choose good games, and have an adequate bankroll- that's what's most important in poker.

Goat gets the star here as he is exactly right. the only thing i can add is that he is exactly right.

Soh-


You asked me to respond, but Goat already said it all. I have nothing to add except to say- Don't be so quick to believe in someone just because they seem to be get good results. There are many mirages in poker. Think for yourself!

I discovered i was better off after getting back my money to get up and go. It improved my results dramatically.


If emotional issues cause you to play poorly, then fine. Otherwise, all you're doing is prolonging the inevitable. IMO-

I've been debating this issue in my head every time I get a ahead in the game. I've always known that if I'm in a good game and play longer, I'll supposed to win more money (provided that I play well). I found it hard to believe this when I'm up say $1000 in a $20-40 game and bust back half or more of it. In the past, it has even made me go on tilt. I think I finally convinced myself last week. I was up $1200 right away in a $20-40 game. I busted back $700 of it before going on fire and winning $2750 for the night. Obviously, I got lucky, but before this, I had always ended up having less money than my peak. This event finally convinced me of what I already knew to be true: that I should keep playing as long as the game is good and I'm playing well.

Another thing that changed is that I finally have decent bankroll to be playing this limit. Ever since I've had decent bankroll, I've found it psychologically easier to keep playing while I'm winning, and to leave while I'm losing. When I had too little of a bankroll, I'd always think about money management. I'd think, "Oh, I shouldn't have busted back that rack because that would have given me buy-in for tomorrow."


Even though money management is pointless, I do believe in "locking up" wins sometimes. If you've had several losing sessions in a row, why not book a small win? You'll definatley feel better winning that day. Booking a small win might help you play better next time. You'll definately be a better frame of mind the next session than if you continued playing and got busted up for the 5 time in a row. I also like locking up wins the day before a road trip. Again, I feel much better going out to Vegas (and rolling up the stakes) if I just came off a winner. Of course, if you really have the correct profesional mindset, these ideas shouldn't apply to you. You should be able to play the same whether your winning or losing. I haven't completely detached myself from emotion, so I still believe these little tricks help me out.

Rhwbullhead,


I agree with you 100%.


Soh

well said. when can i meet you at the hollywood?

i don't play in 20-40 at the hollywood, if that would deter you from revealing yourself to me...

What do you play? I'm interested in meeting anyone from the board, btw. The only day I'm at the Hollywood is on Thursday for the $20-40. I might start going Monday for the $15-30 high lows and I'd like to start learning other games.

im a poor bastard, so i play the 2.50-5 or the 5-10. i used to play stud, but my stud game is very off, and i can't afford to relearn it right now.

"What do you play? I'm interested in meeting anyone from the board, btw."


I'll be the one in the dark sunglasses (and possibly the fake nose and mustache) during next Thursday's 20-40 game. :>)

man, im gonna have to start showing up on thursdays...

See the hand I may or may not have botched (in the mid-limit forum) during last night's 20-40 game. You may decide you can't affort NOT to come on Thursdays! :>)

Dear player,

When I'm up a certain amount, I lock in about 65% of my winnings for that session. The only reason that I do this is

that I feel a lot more confident when I play the next session.

I then play a much better game.


Sitting Bull

P.S. When I'm losing I do not have any loss-stop limit.

But I do not play any longer than four hours.

Dear Player,

Theoretically, you are correct. However, players have to deal with their psychological emotions that will affect their future playing sessions.


Sitting Bull