Uncomfortable, in-between position with small pairs

[parappa]

If my stack were really big, I'd call. If it were really little, I'd push. Since it's in between, I'm confused.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed)

BB (t1705)
UTG (t1140)
MP (t1115)
CO (t700)
Button (t2660)
Hero (t680)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero ???

[Marcotte]

This is very close to a push for me, but I'm not too interested in only picking up 75. So maybe you can try a variation on the stop and go. Raise to 125 and push the flop no matter what comes. He's only gonna make a pair 30% of the time or so right? So more often than not your ahead. If he reraises pf, I think you go all in. You are the smallest stack and need to pick up some chips. He has just barely enough to (maybe) try to bully you preflop, which a small raise may entice him to try.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Pushing right now only gets you your 25 back and then his 50(most likely), so I wouldn't push, atleast not yet. Your stack is small, but your not in that bad of shape yet.

I would call here and hope the BB tries to bully you. If he rasies, then you push. If he checks, oh well, but atleast you can minimize the damage with this hand if a big flop comes down. Besides, you get atleast 4 more hands for free if you have to fold this hand.

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing right now only gets you your 25 back and then his 50(most likely), so I wouldn't push, atleast not yet. Your stack is small, but your not in that bad of shape yet.

I would call here and hope the BB tries to bully you. If he rasies, then you push. If he checks, oh well, but atleast you can minimize the damage with this hand if a big flop comes down. Besides, you get atleast 4 more hands for free if you have to fold this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess part of my confusion in this instance is that I'm not very good at playing this hand post-flop. I can't really think of a flop that doesn't have a 7 in it that I'm happy about. I'm going to check just about anything and will have to fold to his autobet.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't really think of a flop that doesn't have a 7 in it that I'm happy about.

[/ QUOTE ] well if he checks preflop, there is a wide range of flops you could and should be happy with. I would look to take this down on the flop if he checks preflop. Maybe a pot sized bet would take it.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to check just about anything and will have to fold to his autobet.

[/ QUOTE ] This is to passive IMO. Check/folding to a random BB hand is a weak play IMO. Thats your pot man, you [censored] take it!

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't really think of a flop that doesn't have a 7 in it that I'm happy about.

[/ QUOTE ] well if he checks preflop, there is a wide range of flops you could and should be happy with. I would look to take this down on the flop if he checks preflop. Maybe a pot sized bet would take it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm following this logic, should I not just go ahead and stick in a 3xbb raise pre-flop? I mean, I don't see how seeing a flop first helps my hand; it just seems to give him a chance to hit something.

[Benholio]

I say make a standard 3xbb or so raise, and if you only pick up the blinds, thats just fine. Pushing here isn't that bad either, as you are getting pretty close to 'push or fold' territory anyway.

I would NEVER just call here though, no matter your stack size. 77 is a big favorite over a random hand, and if you call, you are likely giving someone 3 free cards to catch up with you. If you are calling to try and trap, well, most hands that would fall for the trap here are at worst a coin-flip against you anyway.

I guess the real challenge here is what to do when BB just calls and you see a flop. You have to use some judgement here. If the flop is A K Q of clubs, maybe its a bad time to take a stab at it. A 9 4 rainbow on the other hand, might be worth trying to take it down. Any bet on the flop probably has to be all-in, since you will have ~500 chips and there will be 300 in the pot.

If you are not comfortable playing 77 on a random flop against a random hand, go ahead and push pre-flop.

[ilya]

I think a 3xbb raise is ok but not so great. On the plus side, if the BB reraises, you can easily fold (vs. just calling, although I think you still have to fold if the BB raises you there). If the BB calls your raise, though, he's probably gonna call your all-in if he catches any piece of the flop. I would hate to push if there's more than one overcard to your 77. But this is pretty likely.

I think pushing is better but, to tell you the truth, I like folding best of all. The BB's stack is just a bit too big to make me comfortable with pushing. Plus, I'm not even that desperate. Plus, open-folding the small blind helps promote a tight image.

cheers,
ilya

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm following this logic, should I not just go ahead and stick in a 3xbb raise pre-flop? I mean, I don't see how seeing a flop first helps my hand; it just seems to give him a chance to hit something.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah you can do that, but if you do and he calls, you are either gonna have to push on the flop or check/fold.

I think you can def. push preflop but you only win 75, and at this point you need to either win a big pot or double up, so thats why I don't like the play, and also, if you push and he calls you are either a big dog or its a coin flip. I wouldn't mind a coin flip at this point, but I def don't want to be a big dog either.

I still think calling is the best play and hope for him to bully you. If he doesn't then you can see a flop and decide what to do from there. I still think that even if you see the flop, you are still likely to be ahead against a random hand(that checked preflop).

[mscott2374]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise to 125 and push the flop no matter what comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you do this, you are more than likely only getting a call if you are behind - therefore you are playing on his terms IMO

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I think pushing is better but, to tell you the truth, I like folding best of all. The BB's stack is just a bit too big to make me comfortable with pushing. Plus, I'm not even that desperate..

[/ QUOTE ] This makes no sense at all. You fold just because your worried about someone with more chips than you? For the BB to call his all in, it would be a nice chunk of his stack. Not desperate? True, but damn well near getting desperate, he needs to make a move, and now is a good oppurtunity to.

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, open-folding the small blind helps promote a tight image.

[/ QUOTE ] no, it projects a weak image. It is basically like asking for someone to steal your blinds next time around. At this point I want people to have no clue as to what I am doing.

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
I think pushing is better but, to tell you the truth, I like folding best of all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. The blinds aren't really worth winning, almost every hand I get my push called with is at least 45/55 against me, and I'm not quite so desparate that I need to double up or quit yet. The 3xbb raise doesn't work because I'm folding almost any flop. This to me is like one of those river situations where I probably have the best hand but can't bet. I don't care so much about image here, I just don't want to get into an all-in war with the big stack with this hand.

[adanthar]

You're right; the blinds aren't worth winning. But you know that you probably do have the best hand PF, so folding it is silly.

Why not call? You're throwing in 25 chips- 4% of your stack- to see a flop if he checks. If he is weak or has nothing, he will check a bad flop (for you) through and you can minbet to take it down on the turn. You can minbet a scary flop and take it down, as well; since he checked PF he probably doesn't have any of it. And if a 7 hits and he makes some sort of hand, you double through more often than not.

If you complete and he raises? All in. You're still a favorite.

[ilya]

I really disagree with everyone who thinks it's a good idea to push if you call and get raised here. Why would you do that?! You really aren't desperate enough at all to gamble with a mediocre hand like 77. Yes, most of the time he calls you'll be a slight favorite...but he doesn't need to have an overpair very often at all to make up for that. And, you're almost never gonna dominate him. And he'll never fold. I think it's a bad move.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think pushing is better but, to tell you the truth, I like folding best of all. The BB's stack is just a bit too big to make me comfortable with pushing. Plus, I'm not even that desperate..

[/ QUOTE ] This makes no sense at all. You fold just because your worried about someone with more chips than you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously not.

I fold because his stack is large enough that it's easy for him to call with a hand like KT. I realize that I'm a favorite to win there....but I'm more worried about the relatively high chance of getting eliminated than excited about the (relatively small) positive EV.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Plus, open-folding the small blind helps promote a tight image.

[/ QUOTE ] no, it projects a weak image. It is basically like asking for someone to steal your blinds next time around. At this point I want people to have no clue as to what I am doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm much less worried about looking weak than I am about looking loose. Someone only gets a chance to steal my big blind once an orbit. Whereas I get five chances to steal people's blinds when it's 6-handed. I'd rather have an image that gives me an advantage in the more common situation.

[Marcotte]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise to 125 and push the flop no matter what comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you do this, you are more than likely only getting a call if you are behind - therefore you are playing on his terms IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

The BB will call 125 with a lot of hands you are ahead of (basically overcards - AK-9, KQ-T, maybe QJ and JT too). If he has a higher pair, he will probably reraise, at which point, I would fold (all of this is pre flop).

Upon reflection, pushing on any flop probably isn't the best play, but what can you bet that doesn't pot commit you but is large enough that it isn't an easy call for the larger stack? If an A or K comes, I think the push is easier, assuming your opponent is good enough to fear you were raising with and A or K and not good enough to put you on a semi steal, which is probably true often enough at the low levels.

This is really a tough one. I can't believe folding is correct, but the post flop play is very tricky.

[kevyk]

This situation is very read-dependant, IMO. Against an aggressive player who is likely to set you all-in if he detects weakness, you'll need to be much more careful than against a typical opponent. Against the typical player who calls too much from the blind, though, I think you have a fairly clear best strategy.

I have to think that a raise preflop and a nearly-automatic push on the flop is the best option you've got. This will exploit your opponent's tendency to call too much preflop, and will tend to get him in trouble, not you.

I dislike the push here because it creates the wrong sort of table image, only wins a small amount, and actually helps your opponent play close to correctly. A weak player with K8, for example, will be able to talk himself into believing that you're "bluffing," and may call an all-in preflop. Not that big a mistake if he knew you held 77. However, that same player will usually have no problem folding when he misses his flop.

This "raise it, then take it" strategy is fairly risky (you do give your opponent a chance to catch), but I do think it has higher EV than a push, call, or fold.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold because his stack is large enough that it's easy for him to call with a hand like KT.

[/ QUOTE ] no its not, that would be a dumb call by his opp, he would have to call 40% of his stack, and has terrible pot odds with that hand.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold because his stack is large enough that it's easy for him to call with a hand like KT.

[/ QUOTE ] no its not, that would be a dumb call by his opp, he would have to call 40% of his stack, and has terrible pot odds with that hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree it's not a good call...but this is the Party $10s. Everyone always thinks you're bluffing.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree it's not a good call...but this is the Party $10s. Everyone always thinks you're bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ] ah... I play PStars, so I guess I am little off when it comes to the idiots that play PP(not you or anyone else, just the ones who call all-ins with KTo /images/graemlins/grin.gif)