5/T A9s BB

[ALL1N]

I knew nothing of these players.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO caps</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

I raise here preflop a lot; I'm more interested in postflop discussion. Thoughts?

[Zele]

Raise PF.
Raise the flop to SB's bet.
CR the river.

[kiddo]

CO only called first in preflop.

Hmmm

I would raise flop and see what happens. Ace with a not very good kicker is not a strong 3bet hand if someone raises flop.

River:
He could have both a set and a flush so I am not so sure about checkraising river. You will win 1 more if he only had A good kicker or 2 pair, but lose 2 more BB if he had flush and maybe 2BB against set (but probably only 1BB). Strange if he only called A, good kicker preflop so... well, tricky... My answer is: playerdependent /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mntbikr15]

I would put him on maybe two pair with A2 or A8, dont see him raising/capping the flop with a flush draw. Unless it was something like Ac10c-AcKc, but then again you would probably expect a raise preflop with such a hand from CO. As for a set it is possible(probable even?), however if I were playing a set here I would more likely call the three bet then raise again on the turn.

Guess I gotta go with player dependant, which mean having just sat down I would probably just check and call it down. I dont see much merit in a river check raise but I could easily be wrong there, just dont think that getting one extra bet if you have the best hand is worth the risk of losing two more if he three bets you.

EDIT- I am raising the SB here on the flop, preflop I raise/check to mix it up depending on how I am hitting at that time.

[ALL1N]

CO had T /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif.

I had many options in this hand.

A few people said raise the flop. I don't see the point of this. I don't want anybody folding, and I get to raise the turn if I just call this flop.

Once the CO raised and SB folded, my options were really 3-bet or go for a turn checkraise on a blank. I feel that the second line may have easily been as good if not better than the first.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

A few people said raise the flop. I don't see the point of this.


[/ QUOTE ]

!!!!!!

1) You probably have the best hand
2) If you raise the guys behind you are getting only 3-1 and should fold a lot of hands they might call with. If they call, you win since they are making a mistake. If they fold, you win!

Guy.

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want anybody folding, and I get to raise the turn if I just call this flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

You want everybody to fold every time till you don't have a real monster which will win a pot (on river) say more than 90% of time (set on uncoordinated rainbow board, four of a kind, flopped nut flush or straight etc, top two pairs etc) . If you have less probability than this you should try to get opponents to fold (or call) if you think you're ahead.

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
You want everybody to fold every time till you don't have a real monster which will win a pot (on river) say more than 90% of time (set on uncoordinated rainbow board, four of a kind, flopped nut flush or straight etc, top two pairs etc) . If you have less probability than this you should try to get opponents to fold (or call) if you think you're ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is surely incorrect. I would much rather an opponent put in one small bet here with a pair/gutshot than fold. The miniscule size of the pot dictates this. Also, no person who limps in from the cutoff is folding a flush draw here, so attempting to make them fold is ludicrous.

[NLSoldier]

I would raise the flop and bet out on the river becuase i dont want it checked through, but i also dont want to put in 3 bets.

[TJD]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, no person who limps in from the cutoff is folding a flush draw here, so attempting to make them fold is ludicrous.


[/ QUOTE ]

Here we go again /images/graemlins/frown.gif

This thinking is sooooo bad! We KNOW he will not fold but who gives a flying f*****. Make him pay more than it it worth and YOU will win money. Your point about extracting the "right" price is OK but I am NEVER thinking about wanting people to fold; that is NEVER the aim. The aim is get them to take bad decisions; the worse the better. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The idea of wanting to keep people in so they can take the pot from you is, in many, many cases, -EV AND they might call your 2 cold in any case, coz they are idiots and then their call is massively PLUS EV for you!!

There are also the not insignificant points, that on the flop, when you should raise, we did not KNOW he had a flush draw; maybe he has A8o; will he fold it? Will he hell; make the bugger pay! AND even if he did have a flush draw, you offer him 5-1 with your call rather than 3-1 if you raise.

Do the sums. It all makes sense. Ed Miller somewhere in the archives dispels this myth much better than I.

trevor