Mason's "Rock Game" Revisited

This weekend in Wendover, I came across a bizarre structure. I was parked in a hold'em game and my wife went over to the 1-5 stud game. I went to check on her, and was stunned to see the ultimate version of The Rock Game. Remember the 30-60 game Mason wrote about where the big blind was $30 in chips taped together that just stayed in the pot? So it was 30-60 w/ one $15 blind essentially. 1-5 doesn't have much of an ante anyway, with only the $1 forced bet. Well this 1-5 game had a rock instead of a forced bet. Well not an actual rock, but a specially made blue chip like a missed blind button that said "Forced Bet $1." The winner of the pot has to put the rock in. Instead of the low card starting things off, the person to the left of the rock has to call the rock with a real $1 or raise with real dollars, or fold. So you never are forced to put any money whatsoever in the pot; there is no ante, no bring in. Nada. So you only have to play monsters and are almost guaranteed to beat live ones who will play hands just to get in action. I saw this unreal structure and told my wife to come talk to me at the hold'em table when she got a chance.


I gave her the Percy book on playing tight low-limit stud and she does OK. I have tried to get her to read TOP and 7CSFAP, but she hasn't except for trying to read 7CSFAP one day. So I wanted to make sure she adjusted to the structure. I told her to play very tight and only play big hands that can get better. I think I exaggerated only slightly when I told her to play Aces or better, with a good kicker (king or bettter :-))and a two flush, but only if her cards were real live. But I am not sure of my analysis or how to figure out the minimum hand to play in this no-ante situation.


How would you all go about figuring the balance between never having to play and wanting to give yourself chances to play against the live ones. Because the people in this game were going a long way with garbage where there was no incentive to play anything but very good hands. And even though my wife was playing tight, they would still run her down with treys or a two-straight or a pair draw or whatever. (I saw one guy call her down with treys when she had obvious kings and made kings-up on fourth.) I know it's only 1-5, but I think this presents an interesting situation. I also know it is not correct to play too tight in a 1-5 game for the initial bet, but I think the rock may change this concept somewhat because losing a hand is sort of a disaster because you didn't have to play in the first place.

There are a few 1-5 games structured like that in Vegas. ( no rock used however )


I agree that you would like to give yourself some chance to beat poor players, but with a structure like this where you have NOTHING to pay for, I guess theoretically you could wait to be rolled-up till you play.


To me a game like this is just a waste of time.


Later,

CJ

you can wait for the nuts and win slowly

you can wait for giant hands and win less slowly

you can play when you have good situations and that also make up for the rake and win at an optimum rate but lose sometimes in the game.


overall id play when i had big pairs that seemed to be the best pair out, and live flush cards, and live high straight cards. and those times i could get in for the minumum with any live pair when lots of players were also in.

Just play this game with 7 buddies, never put any money in the pot (so no rake). Drink as much as possible for free. The only money you should "lose" will be what you tip the dealers and servers. Make sure nothing goes into the drop box.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

I guess you want to be left of the rock chip on 3rd as little as possible, so want to avoid sitting immediately left of a loose player and want to sit left of a rock player. Ideally you want to sit with the loosest player immediately on your left and tightest on your immediate right.

I have played this structure while waiting for holdem. It has no ante, no bring-in, and the winner of the previous hand must start the betting with the $1 rock (plus more if they choose). The rake is 10% up to $4, which is bad. Many players treat third street as a $1 ante. The real action usually starts on 4th street. I think you can play cards that are somewhat better than your opponents' typical starting hands. But basically this game is boring and not really worth playing, except to kill time.