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sfer

09-06-2004, 06:44 PM

Two hands from a 1/2 session today, both have standard Party villains.

Hand 1:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

River: (6.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets...

Hand 2:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button folds.

River: (7.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets...

btspider

09-06-2004, 07:04 PM

hand 1 is good.

hand 2, i check the flop and see what happens.

Jimbobobb

09-06-2004, 07:22 PM

Hand one looks good.

Hand 2:
I don't bet into 4 people with poor position and mid pair, and I'm pretty damn LAG. I bow down.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I know they'll call you with any piece of the board or A high all day long.

Wahoo91

09-06-2004, 08:20 PM

They are both good.

Hand two may be filled with busted draws so I bet this. Regardless, even if you checked, with 7.5 BB you would be forced to call anyway so you gain significantly by betting here instead.

SoCalPat

09-06-2004, 08:37 PM

Hand 1: Fine

Hand 2: Two of your opponents have stuck around to see the river. By now, you should be giving credit for the K being out there. Still, the pot is big enough that if there's a bet behind you, you're calling it down.

WillMagic

09-06-2004, 11:09 PM

Hand 1 is definitely a good value bet.

Hand 2 - I'm not so sure. I'd be pretty worried about being outkicked here - but I check then if someone bets, the pot is big enough that I'd have to call...and worse hands than mine would probably check behind and save a bet...so I think it's close, but I like your bet here too.

Will

sfer

09-08-2004, 03:43 AM

Yup, hand 2 is much closer than hand 1, but I think there's likely a flush draw out there and I'm certainly calling a bet on the river, so I'd much rather bet it myself even if it increasingly looks like I'm not good. Here are both hands with results.

Hand 1:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

River: (6.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 8d Qs (one pair, queens).
CO has 7s Ad (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.25 BB. 

Hand 2:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button folds.

River: (7.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Th Jc (one pair, tens).
CO has Td 9h (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.50 BB. 

Keep betting those rivers guys.

Cerril

09-08-2004, 06:20 AM

Looking good. The second option on hand 2 would be dropping it, I think, figuring someone is very likely to have me beat. But I agree there's no middle ground in either case. I just don't like overcards to my pair on the flop. Turn and river I'm a little easier with.

Wahoo91

09-08-2004, 09:55 AM

Keep betting those rivers guys

This is a must.

As I mention above you really have to bet the river here (and every time a situation like this comes up). A bet on the river has a great chance to knock out hands like Kx that may have stuck around to see whether anyone liked their hand but now thinks they are beat by better kicker.

You have no chance to win against Kx if you check.

spamuell

09-08-2004, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A bet on the river has a great chance to knock out hands like Kx that may have stuck around to see whether anyone liked their hand but now thinks they are beat by better kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this really happen? I can't tell you it doesn't, we don't get to see what they fold, but it seems unlikely to me.

I think sfer's river bet in hand 2 may have been -EV. Still, it's definitely less -EV than checking so I like it.

Wahoo91

09-08-2004, 10:14 AM

Does this really happen?

How often have you folded TPNK to strong aggression? I know I have (and still do; too often probably but getting better). If you are a devotee of WLLH then this is a standard fold.

Like you say, can't prove it, but I am certain it happens enough to make betting the river BY FAR the best strategy in the case above.