I haven't been outplayed this badly in a long time

[joker122]

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

[Guy McSucker]

It looks like SB might know what he's doing, in that he perhaps flopped/turned a big hand and also twigged that you were likely to bet the K on the turn, but I don't see anything particularly clever happening here.

What's the problem?

Guy.

[Marlow]

I think if you pop the flop you'll know where you stand on later streets. You are victimized by passivity here.

Marlow /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if you pop the flop you'll know where you stand on later streets. You are victimized by passivity here.

[/ QUOTE ]

In what way?

If he 3bets flop you will call and hit your K and raise turn. If you raise and he calls flop you will bet your K when it hits. And both times you will call when he checkraises because you cant give up toppair/topkicker HU.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]

It looks like SB might know what he's doing, in that he perhaps flopped/turned a big hand and also twigged that you were likely to bet the K on the turn, but I don't see anything particularly clever happening here.

What's the problem?


[/ QUOTE ]

An observant player will realize that I have AK...I capped preflop and just called his flop bet. He knows I caught top pair on the turn, and knew I would bet if checked to, but probably just call if bet into. He also knows his hand is better, which brings me to...what do you put him on? I think it's pretty clear what he holds just by looking at the action.

[Nottom]

Well his most likely hand is a set with an outside chance of AJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif, AA, or KQ.

Against pretty much all of these you are screwed, but it would be pretty tough to lay this one down.

[Marlow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think if you pop the flop you'll know where you stand on later streets. You are victimized by passivity here.

[/ QUOTE ]

In what way?

If he 3bets flop you will call and hit your K and raise turn. If you raise and he calls flop you will bet your K when it hits. And both times you will call when he checkraises because you cant give up toppair/topkicker HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I'd seriously consider laying down this hand on the turn if he three bets me on the flop, as well as check-raised me on the turn. If it does go this way, I think you are beaten way more than you aren't. I can't see pumping 2 more BBs into his pot when I'm about 90% sure he's made better than me.

The other option would be to just fold the flop. That may very well be the better play. But calling... calling the flop is no good.

Marlow /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[joker122]

..

[tablecop]

how many black aces were there in that deck?

[joker122]

,.

[kiddo]

There will be something like 10BB if you get checkraised on turn. Of course its player dependent, but putting in 2BB to win 10BB with toppair topkicker headsup isnt that bad.

Nope I would not fold AK on a Q high flop even if I got 3bet. Pot is getting big.

Yep, maybe calling flop is bad but you can do it for at least 2 reasons. You are pretty sure he wouldnt bet into you without at least toppair but you have odds to look at turn and then fold. Or: you call flop cause you want to give the impresion of slowplaying and then raise turn or bet behind if he checks.

Anyway, if you cap AK preflop and 3bettor bets into you on a Q-high flop, and you raise and he calls. What do you do on turn?

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

An observant player will realize that I have AK...I capped preflop and just called his flop bet. He knows I caught top pair on the turn, and knew I would bet if checked to


[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I said! He played his hand pretty nicely. I don't think he "outplayed you badly" though.

Guy.

[ALL1N]

I don't think you got outplayed at all.

Your opponent should have bet this turn, knowing you may raise turn or river with AK, and also that you may check behind with TT/JJ.

[Marlow]

[ QUOTE ]
Nope I would not fold AK on a Q high flop even if I got 3bet. Pot is getting big.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless this guy is really tricky/good or just outright overaggressive, you must figure that you're beaten here. So what could he have? He could have AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, AK, AQ, A9 (depending on how agg he is) or maybe KQ. The size of the pot here is irrelevant because even if you hit the turn, you could easily be in a hole much worse than you're already in.

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, maybe calling flop is bad but you can do it for at least 2 reasons. You are pretty sure he wouldnt bet into you without at least toppair but you have odds to look at turn and then fold. Or: you call flop cause you want to give the impresion of slowplaying and then raise turn or bet behind if he checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you have odds here. The pot is offering 10:1 for your two overcards at 7:1, which looks good on the surface. But none of your outs are clean outs. He could easily have KQ or AQ here. He could also have a set or AA/KK. And then there's the flush possibility; I concede that there's only a remote possibility that he could have the flush, but it does cut down your odds a little bit.

For me, the bottom line is that I'd need a perfect read on this guy to continue on with AK. I think the best option here is to fold the flop, next best is raise to see where you are. If he 3-bets you gotta dump.

Marlow /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif