Thought Experiment

Here is a thought experiment to tantalize and titilate.


You are playing in a 100 handed holdem game.


Give examples of hands that would fall into each of the following categories:


1 - THE BEST STARTING HAND


2 - One of a small select collection of the most profitable starting hands. A sure money maker in the long run, even by the worst players.


3 - There are better hands, but these will be sure to show a profit when they are played well.


4 - Can probably show a profit when played very well.


5 - Overall losers, but not a huge money leak.


6 - Complete waste of money.


For full credit be sure to include at least one hand from each of the following categories:


Pocket pairs.


Suited cards.


Suited connectors.


Offsuit connectors.

1. AA


2. AKs


3. AQ


4. JTo


5. Q7s


6. 72o


Hmmmm....seems a lot like the answers for a 10-handed game.


Perhaps, I'm missing the point. Why would changing the game to 100 handed prevent AA, AKs, and AQ from being some of the best possible hands? Why would it change JTo from a moderate-strength hand to something else. Why would it make Q7s better or worse? And how could it make 72o anything but the worse possible hand?


Hands certainly change values depending on how many players there are. The more players, the higher in value the suited connectors become. The fewer players, the higher in value pairs become. And vice versa. But I don't think anything can overtake AA as the best hand, prevent AQ from being profitable, and prevent hands like Q7s from being money losers.


At some point, there is a point of diminishing returns. Hand values will remain constant for practical purposes once a certain # of players are in the hand. There's a difference between a 10-handed game and a 100-handed game but I suspect it's not substantial when considering how you would rank starting hands.


Probably should have asked this at the start. How many decks are we using?

in a 23 handed game. If no one folded on any street, what would the average winning hand be? trips? Str8? Mean, median, and mode. what would people guess?


rob

Since they're shuffling at least three decks together for this 100-handed hold'em game, I damn well want suited aces. Must have the best possible shot to make that full house flush or five-of-a-kind.


--JMike

100 * 2 > 52.


are we using 6 decks, or an infinite deck, or what?

Sorry - in the original post I mentioned that you are using 4 decks.

"in the original post I mentioned that you are using 4 decks."


If by 'original post' you mean 'an imaginary post I made up in my head' then you are correct.


If by 'original post' you mean 'the orginal post in this thread' then you are incorrect, and I can clearly choose the glass in front of me.


Furthermore, vever start a land war in Asia and never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line


HAHAHAHAHAHA

"'in the original post I mentioned that you are using 4 decks.'


"If by 'original post' you mean 'an imaginary post I made up in my head' then you are correct."


Aha, Semantics man, if by "you are correct" you mean "I cannot disprove that you are correct", then you are correct.


But if by "you are correct" you mean "you are correct", then you are incorrect, and I can clearly not choose the glass in front of you.


And remember, never get into a war of semantics when correctness is on the line!


--JMike

p.s. If anyone wants to REALLY pick nits, the omission of the trailing double-quote in the first paragraph was intentional and, I believe, correct.

Anybody know when "The Princess Bride" is on TV again? That was Andre the Giant's best performance other than WrestleMania III.


Back to the topic. I forgot about AAs. That's clearly better than AAo.

If you have AsAs and the flop is AsAsKs do you have 4 aces or a flush? What if someone else has AA, do you chop the pot or does the suited hand win? These are questions best left for consideration after a fifth of scotch.


Pat

same hand ranks should apply. 4 aces beats a flush anyday. even with 4 decks. and AA should chop with AA. no kickers involved... it is interesting though, considering we have other situations in normal holdem where hands are chopped, but that is when kickers are tied...

You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.

Four suited aces (AhAhAhAh) or any four suited cards should win. Hand rankings are determined by the odds of getting them. The odds of hitting "Suited Quads" is even higher than hitting a Royal Flush. "Suited Quads" should be the highest hand in this game. We'll need a math expert to calculate if "Suited Trips" is more difficult to hit than a Royal Flush.


It's going to take more scotch than that.

>


Yep and it will definitely be worth it!


Pat

Hand rankings are not determined by the probability of getting a hand (which should pretty obvious since there are hands that beat less probable hands). They are simply dictated by the rules of the game. There is no reason to assume that this game is played with special rules (eg that suitedness matters for quads) since it wasn't specified. A legitimate question would be the ranking of five of kind, since that hand isn't part of "standard" poker. Does it beat a straight flush? In most home games it does, but I don't know if that's "official".

poker hands are ranked in the order of their probability. straight flushes are less likely statistically than quads, and quads are less likely than a full house, etc. and since the normal rules ARE according to probability, perhaps a game with 4 decks should also include hands that are not covered in 1-deck games, and would rank those hands according to their respective probabilities...

Bobby, you're going to need to clarify this statement for me.


"Hand rankings are not determined by the probability of getting a hand (which should pretty obvious since there are hands that beat less probable hands)."


What hand beat a less probable hand?


I'm about 99.999999999% percent sure that you're wrong here.

What hand beat a less probable hand?

There are far more ways to hold an ace-high flush than a seven-high flush, but the ace-high flush wins.

Come on, Bobby. Don't waste our time. It's obvious that we're talking about the ranking of hands in this manner.


Royal Flush

Straight Flush

Four of a Kind

Full House

Flush

Straight

Three of a Kind

Two Pair

One Pair

High Card


There are more ways to make a Royal Flush (4) than there are to make 9h,7c,6h,4s,2c (1) but discussing hand rankings in that way is just posting Spam on this forum.

but to hold an ace high flush, you still need to have the Ace. it is the one card that you must have to have the ace high flush. every single hand is unique in that there is only 1 distinct way it can occur. a flush is considered to be 5 cards of the same suit. if there are two flushes contesting a pot, the one consisting of the higher cards in the flush wins. this is arbitrary in terms of which cards are higher, but if some cards weren't higher than others, we wouldn't have a game, would we? so while there may be more ways an A-high flush can occur, we all know that, and accept the rules, and know that the statistics of a flush being made (whatever rank it is) are the same. if you have a 7high flush, and get beat by an ace high flush are you going to complain that there was only 1 way that hand could be made, and statistically a harder hand to hit, and should win the pot? no, because the other guy had the Ace, and there was only one way his specific hand could be made as well. if you get a Q-high flush, and notice your opponent's flush cannot be higher than a Q, are you going to fold because his hand is much less likely statistically? no, flushes consist of 5 cards of the same suit, and if you hold 2h3h4h5, and the Ah and 7h are both live, you have the same chance at hitting either of them, but the ace is considered higher.