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10-18-2001, 02:48 PM
Imagine a simple betting game. In each round of betting players have to put in 1 unit to stay in the game. With ten players, at the end of the first round of betting, there will be 10 units in the pot. At the start of the second round of betting, player number one considers the pot odds... According to poker players he puts in 1 unit to win 10 units - so the pot odds are 10 to 1.

But if he won the game at this point he would win 9 units having risked 2 units - odds of 9 to 2. Why do you ignore money already put in the pot? If the player lost at this point he would definitely be losing 2 units and if he won he would definitely be winning 9 units. I am new to poker and have just started studying "The Theory of Poker".

10-18-2001, 04:06 PM
Basically when you agree to play this game at the beginning you play with the assumption that that there will be one of two outcomes:

1. You lose and get nothing.

2. You win and get the entire pot.


You can't stop part way through and decide you don't want to play anymore and take back money you have already put in.


By putting money in on each round it is no longer yours. It now belongs to the pot and anyone in the game can win it including you.


Each time it is your turn you are faced with a decision. Do you give up the game and lose, or do you bet a unit for a chance to win the pot?


In your example you have an opportunity to quit the game and get nothing or bet a unit for a chance to win 10. You can't think of how much money in the pot was originally yours because it isn't yours any more and so it doesn't matter.


"If the player lost at this point he would definitely be losing 2 units and if he won he would definitely be winning 9 units."


This statement is only half true. Yes, if you lost right after placing your second bet you will have lost a total of 2 units by playing the game. BUT, at the moment of your decision you have already lost 1 unit no matter what. You are now deciding if you want to risk losing another unit. You are only really deciding if it is worth it to risk 1 unit. You can't risk the previous bet(s) because you already lost them.


Now of course to decide which you should do at any point (quit or bet) you need to also know what your chances of winning are.

10-18-2001, 06:06 PM
excluding antes and blinds, no one is asking you to put money in the pot with no information to go on. at each round of betting your job is to make the most profitable decision given the information available for that particular moment. new cards and a new round of betting means new decisions. profit comes not from past investment or eventual outcome, but from making the best decision upon each round of betting. calculating pot odds is one tool to help you make that decision. pros make a point of saying that it's all one long session. don't divide that session into hands, divide it into betting rounds. divorce yourself from the money you've put into the pot and don't expect the hand you hope for. play the moment.

10-19-2001, 08:22 AM

10-19-2001, 11:26 AM
ive see lots of wombats in tasmania when i go over there, they are really a neat animal. one funny thing about them is that they poop square droppings. you see these square little bricks on the trails. i couldnt figure it out but after talking with a naturalist ,it's because they mark their territory and the square droppings dont roll off the trail. decent answer.

10-19-2001, 02:22 PM
have known some ass holes who were squares....could be that they were on that trail???

10-21-2001, 11:33 PM
Okay, there are some poker "geniuses" that frequent this site that will jump down my throat with what I am going to tell you. And if those self-proclaimed "geniuses" do, I'll give my patented reply "Oh, it's a common mistake." and leave it at that and letting them think it was my mistake... Doing otherwise would break one of the golden rules: "Never educate a chump."


First off, the pot odds are NOT 10 to 1. When you call in your hypothetical example, the pot odds are 9 to 1. You're calling one bet with nine bets already in the pot.


Now, for a little more education. (I'll forget about the chumps...err "geniuses" out there!) Let's say that you're the fourth person to bet. You're calling 3 bets with one bet for 3:1 odds, right? Okay, everybody else calls except for the guy in last position who raises. All three people to your right call the raise. There are 14 bets in the pot when the action gets to you. Now, if you call, are you calling with 14:1 odds? No, now you have to consider how much you have already put in the pot that round of betting. (This is the dig with the chumps...err "geniuses".) You're calling with 14:2 odds or 7:1 odds. This is a bad example because you're now getting better odds for your call of the raise than what you originally had bet but I'm sure you can see where this would not have that benefit.


We can apply this to what you're learning now with "The Theory of Poker". Let's say that you flop two pair and there is a straight draw on the board. You are in the middle of two other players. Let's also say both players are going for the straight. The player to your right bets and makes it 4 bets in the pot. Now, if you just call, it will give the player behind you the right odds on a call. However, if you raise then, the same player would be making a mistake in calling your raise. Instead of 5:1 pot odds, he would be calling 5:2 pot odds or 2.5:1.


Hope that helps.

10-25-2001, 03:25 PM
you're dumb. you have made mathematical claims about pot odds, and said that other 'chumps' were wrong, but you were right. you never proved anything. and you can't because you're wrong. once you put a bet into the pot, if you face a raise, you are considering completely different odds and the original bet cannot be included in what you are now choosing to risk or save.

10-27-2001, 11:45 AM
I'll give you a nickel for every quarter you can stand on its edge.


You're right. Absolutely right. Now I can stay in a 3-bet pot with a pair of three's under the gun. Thanks, for pointing that out. I will now be getting the proper odds for my call (7.5:1) I'll just forget that I've contributed a third of the pot.


It's a common mistake.